DOTA 2

Holy fuck you guys are willfully ignorant or your reading comprehension is that bad.

Icefrog: "Should totally just be yourself @ the desk, people like you for who you are"
Icefrog: "Whatever you want to do is fine"

His exact quotes, he was never told to adjust his behavior and is the same James that he has always been. If valve wanted something mainstream and canned, Redeye was available.

Whatever you think a host should or should not be is irrelevant. Valve 100% knew what they were getting, then acted all surprised by it. Im not saying I agree with everything he does, but it was certainly no surprise to anyone who has watched him over the years. Both the James thing and this entire production are Valve looking stupid.

They hired the same clowns that ran the Nanyang championship that was also a shitshow. No surprise how this turned out.

Boy genjiro, you married to the guy or something?

Gaming communities remind me of high school, all soap operas filled with idiots.

No, because I do think he can cross the line sometimes..... but I dont see how he was in the wrong here. And I think James is good for the community....especially after reading things like fat fuck Gabe was trying to pay his casters with signatures and it was James who got it fixed. There really does need to be some kind of standardization/union/whatever in esports if they want it to be like an actual sport. Just like the monitor issue they were having here.

Now, if Valve releases some emails or something where 2gd was told by Lord Gaben to keep it clean and he didnt, I will 100% agree with him being out of line. Even then, there would be a huge disconnect between what Valve/Icefrog were telling him.

Regardless, Valve looks really bad in this having to fire their host and the entire production company. Mismanaged is an understatement.

Zaphid_sl said:

On the other hand, James is probably the only person who actually could profit from this shitshow.

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From who, though? Valve controls 2 of the top 3 esport titles. So if he really wants to cash in he'd have to go to League and I doubt Riot would do that simply to middle finger Valve. They'd have more to gain from the two companies having a more-or-less respectful behavior. I think other organizations would be reluctant to hire him simply because both himself and Valve are handling this quite poorly. His defense piece airs a ton of dirty laundry. Stuff that people in esports, for whatever reason, are reluctant to talk about especially salaries. I think if he's already shown once he's not afraid to put it all out there other organizations would think it could happen to them as well if they part on unfavorable terms.

The biggest loser in all of this is Valve, because regardless as to how you feel about the 2GD situation, all of Valve's really dirty laundry is being aired.

Genjiro, if your friend tells you tojust be yourselfon a date, don't fart loudly, grab the girl and try to make her smell it while laughing manically. That isn't what they meant.

Tenks_sl said:

From who, though? Valve controls 2 of the top 3 esport titles. So if he really wants to cash in he'd have to go to League and I doubt Riot would do that simply to middle finger Valve. They'd have more to gain from the two companies having a more-or-less respectful behavior. I think other organizations would be reluctant to hire him simply because both himself and Valve are handling this quite poorly. His defense piece airs a ton of dirty laundry. Stuff that people in esports, for whatever reason, are reluctant to talk about especially salaries. I think if he's already shown once he's not afraid to put it all out there other organizations would think it could happen to them as well if they part on unfavorable terms.

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Europe generally gives less shit about political correctness. When you get called an ass by a billionaire on reddit, it makes you are sticking to the "man". On top of that, he is not tied to their ecosystem like most of the talent and all of the players. Does your company want to enter the market ? Do you want to run an advertising campaign ? Are you developing a title and want some esport presence ? He is not dependant on hosting events like Redeye, he was originally perfectly fine doing behind the scenes stuff and developing his title.

Anyway, the key to the story is that Icefrog=/=Bruno=/=Gaben=/=Valve, even thought they all work for the same company and should very much know what each other is doing and not contradict each other.

Cybsled_sl said:

The biggest loser in all of this is Valve, because regardless as to how you feel about the 2GD situation, all of Valve's really dirty laundry is being aired.

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I'd say dota fans are the biggest losers. Now we're going to end up with Chobra or Redeye hosting and neither of them know shit about dota. As I went to sleep last night I was wondering who from the DotA community could fill that role and ended up with LD or Purge.

Going back to actual DotA, I enjoyed the Team Spirit games. Though I'm biased and find CK one shotting people hilarious.

Sheever seems to gravitate towards hosting stuff, but she's not really great, more like good enough.

Fuck it. Bring in Lysander.

I really don't care, I just watch matches then mute the stream between.

Intrinsic_sl said:

Sheever's main goal is to host a TI and she's said so quite often. She'll analyze or commentate as she needs but I don't think it is her passion. James coached her a lot on hosting and she keeps trying to improve. LD would be great too but I'd hate to lose him as a caster to just hosting duties. And Redeye is good too. Guy was meme'ing it up last TI and dumpstering Mad at the desk.

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I think the hosting thing came later, she started as a streamer and would commentate less covered matches. The trouble I think she has is that she moments of uncertainty which can be endearing but I think you need someone who can take strong control to move it forward.

Intrinsic_sl said:

James's book was very insightful and correct on a number of points but mainly, for me, that he was very conscious of who the audience is and what the product is. He admitted his dots knowledge is extremely low and devised ways to engage the panel while extracting the insight and knowledge of their expertise. That's awesomely his exact purpose. And why Sheever and/or Redeye can be great.

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I believe he means his meta knowledge and pro scene as he hasn't been following lately, he was over 5k a while back so I don't think most people quantify that as low knowledge.

Intrinsic_sl said:

I'm not sure why you assumed I was talking about his MMR and not exactly what you point out.

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Maybe because you saidhe has low dota knowledgeand compared him with Redeye who doesn't even play the game...

The casters are pretty bad overall, but we cant lose LD as he to me is the best all around at keeping it light, moving the commentary to insightful things unfolding in the game, and overall knowledge.

Capitalist for example is constantly saying things which are 100% dead wrong about mechanics etc, its painful to listen to him. Kotlguy annoys me the most now that Ayesee has disappeared mostly, as he has this smugness about him now that just annoys me listening to him. As far as actual in game casters who played, SyndereN and Winter both to me hit it out of the park usually.

As far as the James thing, the sad part is I think dota needs people like that who arent afraid to ruffle feathers for the common good (aforementioned ti4 bullshit on caster pay and signatures for example) and dont just bob their heads up and down on Gabes dong like Tobiwan. PPD came out with some vlog just slurping Gabes cock so much it made me nauseous, but hes making millions off of playing video games so I can see why he wouldnt bite the hand that feeds.

Oh well, here's to hoping we get some good games tonight.

Agreed, where are we going to find someone brave enough to open the Shanghai Major with an anectdote about not being able to get any porn through the chinese firewall?

Genjiro_sl said:

Holy fuck you guys are willfully ignorant or your reading comprehension is that bad.

Icefrog: "Should totally just be yourself @ the desk, people like you for who you are"
Icefrog: "Whatever you want to do is fine"

His exact quotes, he was never told to adjust his behavior and is the same James that he has always been. If valve wanted something mainstream and canned, Redeye was available.

Whatever you think a host should or should not be is irrelevant. Valve 100% knew what they were getting, then acted all surprised by it. Im not saying I agree with everything he does, but it was certainly no surprise to anyone who has watched him over the years. Both the James thing and this entire production are Valve looking stupid.

They hired the same clowns that ran the Nanyang championship that was also a shitshow. No surprise how this turned out.

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Given that the last direct involvement Valve had with him was at TI4 where he admittedly was more professional on their request, saying "be yourself" in this context very easily means "be what you were at TI4". In fact, why would he think any differently when professional, main stream and sportslike has always been what Valve has tried to create for their official tournaments.

This last group is so stacked.

Some questionable plays by EG so far.

Nobody on the panel should be allowed to dress themselves.