Dragon Age: Inquisition (Plot Details in Spoilers!)

I like the voiced protagonist, but it comes at an annoyingly high cost. DA2 was rather baffling in this regard; my favorite part of DAO was the origin stories, and the game giving you nods back to your origin throughout the story. DA2 should've been expanding on that concept, both in making even more divergent stories based on your origin, and in simple quantity of possible origins, not cutting them out altogether.

Randin_sl said:

I like the voiced protagonist, but it comes at an annoyingly high cost. DA2 was rather baffling in this regard; my favorite part of DAO was the origin stories, and the game giving you nods back to your origin throughout the story. DA2 should've been expanding on that concept, both in making even more divergent stories based on your origin, and in simple quantity of possible origins, not cutting them out altogether.

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And that is the point I was trying to get across. Character development and legitimacy as the ridiculous trade off for a fully voiced PC.

It blows my mind how you take a step back from the compromise (ME - Origin/History + Voice vs DA:O - origins/character gen/no voice).

Video games are expensive. You're sacrificing quantity for quality and I think it's been a fair trade off. People trump up all this stuff about how they're so much more immersed in the old silent protagonists with all these tons of trivial little options, but I personally feel that that's a load of bunk. There has never been anywhere near the mass attachment to a character like there was for Mass Effect's Commander Shepard. Everyone has their own, very personal Shepard and their own story to tell with him and/or her. The amount of fucks that people gave about that character are on a levelfarabove anything that anyone has done in a video game before. The internet went absolutely batshit insane, in an unprecedented manner, over Mass Effect 3's faults because of it.

I'm sure if Bioware had an infinite amount of money they'd have loved to do a ton of origin stuff for Hawke, but that was just not a feasible option and it might not ever be one. He could have used a few origin customization options like Shepard and a set of tweaks for looks, sure, but the DA:O style stuff just wasn't a viable option for this type of storytelling. There's still a ton of stuff that you can do, as seen in Mass Effect, that can make a character very personal without having a ton of starting options anyways.

Silent protagonists with a billion little options still have their place in games like the upcoming Project Eternity, Shadowrun Returns, the new Torment, etc. However, they just do not fit in with paradigm of Cinematic Storytelling of games like Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age, and the like though. Mass Effect also proved that a fully voiced game can give more of a feeling of personalization and attachment than anything else when a game/series is done right.

I can go either way. I'm totally comfortable with Half-Life 2, but I prefer to hear my character talk.

Sean_sl said:

Video games are expensive. You're sacrificing quantity for quality and I think it's been a fair trade off.

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You can tell the differences in quality between the origin stories in the original DAO. I played the elf origin and it pales in comparison to the human story. Besides who is going to play the game over and over again just to play the different origins? In the end it's just a slightly different flavor. I have had them both for a few years and have only just recently played them again to prep my DA universe knowledge for DA3.

Mixtilplix_sl said:

You can tell the differences in quality between the origin stories in the original DAO. I played the elf origin and it pales in comparison to the human story. Besides who is going to play the game over and over again just to play the different origins? In the end it's just a slightly different flavor.

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Heh, I did! I played through every one of them. You're right though, some were definitely throwaways and none of them made much of a difference, if any, in the grand scheme of things.

I think one of Dragon Age 2's biggest problems may have been adding the 2 to the title. Itshouldbe pretty meaningless, but it causes people to have really silly preconceptions and definitely affected how people perceived the game. Dropping the 3 from DA3 and just calling it Dragon Age: Inquisition is probably for the best.

Sean_sl said:

I think one of Dragon Age 2's biggest problems may have been adding the 2 to the title. Itshouldbe pretty meaningless, but it causes people to have really silly preconceptions and definitely affected how people perceived the game. Dropping the 3 from DA3 and just calling it Dragon Age: Inquisition is probably for the best.

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That's true, I wish there would have been more of a continuous narrative from the first to the second. I got all giddy when the wardens showed up at the end of act 2 in DA2. Reminded me how weak the story and supporting characters were in DA2 compared to the first.

different strokes for different folks. the tighter the narrative, the more the game needs a figurehead. Jrpgs. ME Tell specific stories, which require a specific main character. These characters become memorable because of their stories.


Planescape is odd really I suppose. Considering the Nameless one is nameless, and doesn't remember their past at all.. they really COULD have left them a blank slate. kindof like Kotor. In both cases you are playing a specific character. but one that is a blank slate at the same time.

Open world games tend to favor build your own character of course. Or games that focus on gameplay. As stated, fuck you interactive storybook. we want games.
I'm more attached to MY dragonborn, MY savoir of Neverwinter, but My shepard is more memorable for sure. And more bankable. As My Shep is will invariably have more in common with your shep, and can be marketed because of it. This is the advantage of Planescape/Kotor. Since there are figureheads for the blank slate, they can market Revan or Nameless one, without worrying just how different one may be from the rest.

But I for sure like building an entire party sometimes, and filling in the party banter myself.

Caliane_sl said:

I'm more attached to MY dragonborn, MY savoir of Neverwinter, but My shepard is more memorable for sure. And more bankable.

But I for sure like building an entire party sometimes, and filling in the party banter myself.

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Minus the dragonbore and add the Warden and I agree with you. Except I question the statement that everyone playing the same but differant hero provides MEs marketability.

The banter comment makes me wonder. Does having strongly positive PnP experience (or lack therof) effect expectations of quality on character development and interactions for most players? Being able to fill the gap when necessary, or refusing a streaming load, etc.

The death sentence hanging over the wardens head, kept me from getting too attached. if you are going to do that, it IS better to make it an author established character.

Fallout3 of course had the same problem. get to the end. and fuck you, I don't want MY wanderer to make this choice. IF you as the author are going to force me to make MY character, go through YOUR motions and story bullets, why did you give me any creative power in the first place?


Shepard has marketability. as Shepard is a specific character. The actual variance in how he/she behaved or looked is pretty small. You can market around the N7 armor, and the name, and even get away with one or two visual designs. Particularly as there was a "base" Shepard, and you had to take an active step to change it. Think Link in zelda. Every Zelda ever, let you change Link's name. But he is STILL Link for promotion. Even Jrpgs. Cecil, Rosa, Locke, Terra, etc in Final Fantasy. They let you change their names, but for promotional purposes, everyone ignores that.

Can't do that in many of the dragon warriors on the other hand, where the main character is just "hero". Everything else is made up by you. or most western rpgs with real freeform creation. Neverwinters for example. Where class, race, gender, name, etc is totally up to you.

Mixtilplix_sl said:

You can tell the differences in quality between the origin stories in the original DAO. I played the elf origin and it pales in comparison to the human story. Besides who is going to play the game over and over again just to play the different origins? In the end it's just a slightly different flavor. I have had them both for a few years and have only just recently played them again to prep my DA universe knowledge for DA3.

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They put tons of work into the Human Noble and Dwarven Noble origin stories, the rest were just phoned in.

The problem with switching from Warden to Hawk isn't really voiced vs non voiced, but the fact that all the history with Morrigan and the Warden means jack shit in DA3. I can imagine their first meeting.

<epic fanfaire music>
Morrigan: I HAVE RETURNED!
Hawke: Uh, okay, that's nice I guess?

It's like the big reveal in Star Trek that was all dramatic and shit but Kirk was basically "Okay great, moving on." Or the attempt at a Conan reboot where Hellboy is all "THIS BABY'S NAME IS... CONAN!" and the skies part and the angels sing and his wife is like "wtf, put my baby down"

Plus I take the "silent" protagonist to mean truly silent, aka Gordon Freeman. Not DA1 style where you choose the exact words your avatar says, and then listen to the rest of the characters react. Really, the ME system is the first one to make a voiced protagonist interesting because you choose his attitude rather than his words, and then hear the result. In games where you choose the exact words, and then your character speaks them out loud, I just skip the voiced dialog because I JUST READ THAT. I hate that shit.

So you guys aren't really arguing about voiced vs non voiced, its more about ME/DA2 style vs basically everything else that has ever been done. And yes, that style is probably the best of them all, across every genre. (but mostly because ME is fucking great)

I just wish they hadn't dumped the Warden for Hawke, because it fucks up the established story. Like making a sequel to a movie where they were too cheap to bring the stars back and yet they wrote the whole script for that character. (See Fast and Furious 2 where Chris Tucker pretends to be Vin Diesel. Well, if you want to punish yourself. And fuck Coy/Vance Duke.)

Hawke's not returning in DAI. There is going to be a completely new protagonist. They said that there will be appearances from characters past, but it will probably be like Flemeth's random appearance in DA2. With regards to DAO, I think they had to start with a new character since they pretty much went as far as they could with the warden through all the DLC they put out. If you play through the majority of it they play out the warden and the wardens faction. At least you got Anders, annoying as he is.

From playing all the DAO DLC it appears that the only aspects that are cannon are what happens to the supporting characters.

Ah okay then. Well, hopefully they come up with a less horribly generic fantasy trope name than "Hawke", ffs.

Kreugen_sl said:

Ah okay then. Well, hopefully they come up with a less horribly generic fantasy trope name than "Hawke", ffs.

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So far the character is just known as "The Inquisitor"

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age:_Inquisition

Cinematic designer Jon Perry said that "one level in Dragon Age 3 is as big as all of the levels in Dragon Age 2."

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Quite the claim.

an accordion_sl said:

Quite the claim.

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Well, dragon age 2 only had, like, four levels, so not quite as big a claim as it might otherwise seem.

Yea, and DA3 will only have that one level.

Caliane_sl said:

different strokes for different folks. the tighter the narrative, the more the game needs a figurehead. Jrpgs. ME Tell specific stories, which require a specific main character. These characters become memorable because of their stories.

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If I wanted a FF game,I'd fucking play a FF game. Western RPGs aresupposedto be about the characteryoucreate, not some fucking third-rate attempt to rip off Joss Whedon with d-list voice actors.