DA2 Exec Producer: "Sorry guys but we we won't be able to improve the new fighting system in DA2 because we blew all our remaining budget on animating scenes of Hawke plowing Anders. "
Dragon Age: Inquisition (Plot Details in Spoilers!)
- Thread starter Eonan
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Everyone is forgetting the biggest atrocity.
Varric was not romanceable. Who the fuck would make that decision? Fucking retarded. If I cannot get that man out of his mithril subligars in DA:I, I am going to send a very angrily worded letter to congress.
Varric was not romanceable. Who the fuck would make that decision? Fucking retarded. If I cannot get that man out of his mithril subligars in DA:I, I am going to send a very angrily worded letter to congress.
Agraza
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Varric was cool, but dorf sex? /shudder
Combat felt better to me in 2 than O, but it's been too long for me to reflect on the details. I'd like them to flesh out the tactics system much much more so pausing is eliminated. Pausing to switch characters to give orders is lame as fuck. I do recall pausing less frequently in 2, so that might be why I have a higher opinion of it.
Miranda should show up in DA:I because...because.
Combat felt better to me in 2 than O, but it's been too long for me to reflect on the details. I'd like them to flesh out the tactics system much much more so pausing is eliminated. Pausing to switch characters to give orders is lame as fuck. I do recall pausing less frequently in 2, so that might be why I have a higher opinion of it.
Miranda should show up in DA:I because...because.
I'm not sure I prefer DA:O's combat to DA2 but it's a close thing. The pausing effect was just so natural to me because of all the times I'd had to do it in any forgotten realms game. I remember those fucking cambion twins in Icewind Dale 2; if you didn't micro-task every single person of your party, you were taking a horrid wilting to the motherfucking face. And christ that shit was painful. Fort save for half? Awesome, great, fabulous. Everyone with a wis score high enough to cast a heal spell didn't have a fort save for shit, obvs.
It was also really funny to see people who didn't play those RPGs pick up DA:O. My boyfriend at the time was playing it on xbox and he just charges in. He's getting destroyed left and right the first time he meets an emissary in the koricari wilds and he's like, wtf, it's IMPOSSIBLE to beat this encounter.
And I was just so confused. I ask him why he's not pausing and he gives me the most ludicrous expression. "Why would I pause in this game?" "Because you tell everyone in your party what to do, what to cast, where to go etc. You need to direct and command them." "Are you fucking for real?" "Yea, don't barrel in like it's fucking crash bandicoot man, wtf?"
That said, much like old games based on dnd rulesets, classes and such weren't often powerful unless you stacked/worked them. Archer in DA:O? Bard/Ranger, bard song always on, Shale always in your party, don't use any specials, win. At least in DA2 I felt like they fleshed out the archer trees and gave me abilities that weren't less powerful than auto attacks.
I miss the "pause and command" style of play, just because it felt more strategic (even if that was just mostly illusion) and allowed you to give it more of a DND feel to it. "What do you do here?" "I bottle neck them in the motherfucking door and cast a fireball centered on my thief with improved evasion to negate all of the damage and /lol while everything gets crispy." "Now you're surrounded, and since you are otherwise occupied you are flat footed." "They entered my space, so I get an attack of opportunity, and I'm going to use it to tumble out of the motherfucking way." "Great, you tumble into a fucking vampire." "Did you put vampires in this just to fuck with my sneak attack?" "Fuck your thief." "I'm taking penetrating strike next level asshole."
ANYWAYS...
Yea. While I really enjoy the pause combat, I liked the updated actiony feel to DA2 and the fact that I could have ACTUAL abilities instead of a bunch of passives or damage multipliers to be worthwhile. Also, flipping out of melee range while slashing was a lot of fun and looked pretty flashy...until the next wave landed right on top of my head again, wtf.
It was also really funny to see people who didn't play those RPGs pick up DA:O. My boyfriend at the time was playing it on xbox and he just charges in. He's getting destroyed left and right the first time he meets an emissary in the koricari wilds and he's like, wtf, it's IMPOSSIBLE to beat this encounter.
And I was just so confused. I ask him why he's not pausing and he gives me the most ludicrous expression. "Why would I pause in this game?" "Because you tell everyone in your party what to do, what to cast, where to go etc. You need to direct and command them." "Are you fucking for real?" "Yea, don't barrel in like it's fucking crash bandicoot man, wtf?"
That said, much like old games based on dnd rulesets, classes and such weren't often powerful unless you stacked/worked them. Archer in DA:O? Bard/Ranger, bard song always on, Shale always in your party, don't use any specials, win. At least in DA2 I felt like they fleshed out the archer trees and gave me abilities that weren't less powerful than auto attacks.
I miss the "pause and command" style of play, just because it felt more strategic (even if that was just mostly illusion) and allowed you to give it more of a DND feel to it. "What do you do here?" "I bottle neck them in the motherfucking door and cast a fireball centered on my thief with improved evasion to negate all of the damage and /lol while everything gets crispy." "Now you're surrounded, and since you are otherwise occupied you are flat footed." "They entered my space, so I get an attack of opportunity, and I'm going to use it to tumble out of the motherfucking way." "Great, you tumble into a fucking vampire." "Did you put vampires in this just to fuck with my sneak attack?" "Fuck your thief." "I'm taking penetrating strike next level asshole."
ANYWAYS...
Yea. While I really enjoy the pause combat, I liked the updated actiony feel to DA2 and the fact that I could have ACTUAL abilities instead of a bunch of passives or damage multipliers to be worthwhile. Also, flipping out of melee range while slashing was a lot of fun and looked pretty flashy...until the next wave landed right on top of my head again, wtf.
Azrayne
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I dunno, I kinda liked that there was a character in my party who was female and yet wasn't trying to jump on my dick constantly.
I don't mind the relationship stuff, but I hate having it shoved down my throat. As much as I enjoyed Mass Effect, being put in situations where you're constantly forced to deal with relationship drama, unable to progress interactions with certain NPC's unless you do relationship shit, etc. really bugged me at times.
I think BG2 did it pretty well, it was there, you could do it if you wanted, but you could just as easily ignore it entirely and it wouldn't have any negative effect on the other 99.9% of the game. Although the romance choices kinda sucked: you had whiny elf chick A, whiny elf chick B, evil elf chick, and if you played a chick, pompous asshole knight. zzzzzzzzz.
That said, I'm speaking in general terms about recent Bioware games here. From what I remember of DA2, I don't remember it being quite as bad on the forced romance stuff. I didn't have that pirate chick in my party much, I just said 'nohomo' to Anders, and Meryll (sp?) would get soppy and flirt with me when I went to her house* to progress her questline. Not as bad as DAO or the ME games.
*Another thing that really bugged the shit out of me. Only being able to talk to party members in their houses, and having those houses spread all over the fucking city, was terrible game design.
Yea, changing it from just being able to turn to your companions and talk to them to having to hunt them down really sucked. It felt more organic if you were just walking along and turned to them and went, SO BRO, you're a King?!
You did that in BG/NWN too and it seemed retarded when they stopped it. I definitely liked the increased character interaction; your companions talking amongst themselves and having RELATIONSHIPS felt really cool to me, as it changed the perception that they weren't just sitting there with a thumb up their ass until you had to progress a story line.
As far as ME, when I first started it I was like, jesus christ, esc, ain't nobody got time for this with reapers running around! But later on it felt more realistic to have it in there. It humanized my Shepard for me - you can form friendships but for whatever reason the idea that you're dealing with crazy shit and you still have time to fall in love just made me feel more sympathetic to my Shepard.
But all of those scenes are so awkward. When I got to the romance scenes and there was someone else in the room I would blush hardcore and exit out of that shit super fast. "Why is your Warden naked?" "The world is fucking ending, IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA."
You did that in BG/NWN too and it seemed retarded when they stopped it. I definitely liked the increased character interaction; your companions talking amongst themselves and having RELATIONSHIPS felt really cool to me, as it changed the perception that they weren't just sitting there with a thumb up their ass until you had to progress a story line.
As far as ME, when I first started it I was like, jesus christ, esc, ain't nobody got time for this with reapers running around! But later on it felt more realistic to have it in there. It humanized my Shepard for me - you can form friendships but for whatever reason the idea that you're dealing with crazy shit and you still have time to fall in love just made me feel more sympathetic to my Shepard.
But all of those scenes are so awkward. When I got to the romance scenes and there was someone else in the room I would blush hardcore and exit out of that shit super fast. "Why is your Warden naked?" "The world is fucking ending, IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA."
From the screens and footage I've seen, Varric is still fucking his crossbow. Sorry Vex.
iannis
Musty Nester
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Yeah, it made more sense in DA because you assume that it's taking you a few days as you're just plodding down the road. There's only so much you can play Eye Spy with my little eye.... ANOTHER COW before you turn to gangrape to pass the time.
ME lacked that. They could have done a little more with the spaceships. You walk up to someone, "Holy shit this is so BORING." and like you go up to joker in the cockpit, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"
hodj
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Wrong. I didn't assume anything. This is fucking dumb as shit. The fact is that they only have so many resources to distribute to any particular game, and the more schizophrenic their focus becomes, the more schizophrenic the design philosophy becomes, the less focused the gameplay is. This is how game development works. The more they focus on pandering to every demographic, the more the game suffers, and my reasoning isn't flawed. Fact: Dragon Age 2 was met with overwhelmingly negative reception by the community. Fact: Dragon Age 2 vastly underperformed in sales as a result. Fact: After Dragon Age Origins came out, its sales increased week over week for several weeks as word of mouth got out that it was a good game. Fact: Dragon Age 2's sales declined week over week as word of mouth got out that it was shit. None of this is remotely disputable.
This. They took away all strategy and left us with an abortion of a hybrid Diablo meets Mass Effect combat system that was trash.
Let's compare sales of the two games, shall we?
Citing this post at the Escapist:The Escapist : Forums : Gaming Discussion : Dragon Age 2 Sales
See that? DA2 flopped. The majority of people felt the changes in the systems were a net negative. Every week the game sold less and less, while every week for DA:O the game sold more and more. Why was that? Because word of mouth sold DA:O and word of mouth killed DA2. That alone is proof in the pudding that the changes to DA2 were not favorable to the DA:O fanbase at large.
hodj
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Right and for DA2 all that was thrown in the toilet. No need to pause and really micro manage your units, positioning became a joke because mobs would just spawn in behind you mages and rape them while your back was turned. Taking away the eagle's eye view, emphasizing style and flash over substantive gameplay, focusing on muh waifu bullshit while ignoring core gameplay fucking ruined the game.
I do not like action rpgs in the first place. They're boring click fests. Man wow I can click attack 400 times in a row. There's no strategy to that. If I wanted that I'd go play games that do that infinitely better, like diablo or torchlight or path of exile.
Some people may be mesmerized by flashy attack animations, I'm not. I want my characters to look like ants as I move them around from above and position them and micromanage every aspect of the fight. You cannot do that to the same degree with a third person locked two feet behind the character's back Mass Effect style combat system. You simply can't.
Agraza
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Well I'd like a citation for those sales numbers if you're going to claim they're facts. You have a game that was well received critically and one that was poorly received. I'll give you that. Why?
The romance stuff is very weak and generally if you're the girl you can hook up with all the dudes sans a select few and vice versa for the dude. I'd bet the dedicated romance content accounts for less than 5 minutes per character it's available for. You think they put a lot of effort into that shit? They're don't even use FMV for the cutscenes. For that matter both games had similar romance options. How does it possibly account for the disparity in reception?
The romance stuff is very weak and generally if you're the girl you can hook up with all the dudes sans a select few and vice versa for the dude. I'd bet the dedicated romance content accounts for less than 5 minutes per character it's available for. You think they put a lot of effort into that shit? They're don't even use FMV for the cutscenes. For that matter both games had similar romance options. How does it possibly account for the disparity in reception?
hodj
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Citation is at the link hows about you check the link before crying about citations?
Dragon Age 2 was well received by critics, too what are you talking about? The disconnect between reviews and the actual community response is the biggest proof in the pudding that DA2 was a shitball.
You guys are free to like what you like, but stop trying to convince me to like it, because its not gonna work. Dragon Age was turned into Mass Effect With Dragons and most of us that liked Dragon Age Origins liked it because it was a top down isometric view party based experience with tactical depth versus PRESS BUTTON RECEIVE SHINY WIN BACON.
Dragon Age 2 was well received by critics, too what are you talking about? The disconnect between reviews and the actual community response is the biggest proof in the pudding that DA2 was a shitball.
You guys are free to like what you like, but stop trying to convince me to like it, because its not gonna work. Dragon Age was turned into Mass Effect With Dragons and most of us that liked Dragon Age Origins liked it because it was a top down isometric view party based experience with tactical depth versus PRESS BUTTON RECEIVE SHINY WIN BACON.
Agraza
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I'm talking about the user score. Game journalism is a sham. A 10 point drop is more like a 50 point drop, but they can't afford to be cut off from the publishers.
I'm not trying to convince you to like anything. I don't think Tuco is either. You're trying to assign causes to effects like a jihadist trying to shoot an AK. It's just silly. You're either getting sloppy or you're off your meds man. You're come off frothy about this.
It's not like at this point anything either of says will have the slightest impact. The game is virtually done. If it's actiony or not, that is completely settled.
My issues with DA2 weren't the combat, but the bad combat pacing, level recycling, and the ending not reflecting what are implied to be significant choices earlier. I'm most butthurt about the level recycling. The game felt tiny because it was tiny. You were confined to a city. I was very disgruntled about the small scope.
I'm not trying to convince you to like anything. I don't think Tuco is either. You're trying to assign causes to effects like a jihadist trying to shoot an AK. It's just silly. You're either getting sloppy or you're off your meds man. You're come off frothy about this.
It's not like at this point anything either of says will have the slightest impact. The game is virtually done. If it's actiony or not, that is completely settled.
My issues with DA2 weren't the combat, but the bad combat pacing, level recycling, and the ending not reflecting what are implied to be significant choices earlier. I'm most butthurt about the level recycling. The game felt tiny because it was tiny. You were confined to a city. I was very disgruntled about the small scope.
hodj
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The primary cause of Bioware going to shit is that they are focused on appealing to as broad a segment of society as possible, which means focusing on stupid shit like romance and flashy press button win bacon gameplay. This isn't remotely debateable. They've said it themselves:
Dragon Age 2 lead dev: | PC Gamer
This is the kinds of statements that made Jennifer Hepler the focus of the hate. She was literally saying things like "The thing I hate most about games is the gameplay" for fucks' sake.
Fuck yes I'm unhinged over this. Strategic party based RPGs are my favorite thing in the world and when Bioware turned DA2 into Mass Effect with swords and Dragons, that shit fucking cut me deep. I've already said I"m proudly jumping off buildings over this one particular game and issue.
The assertion that DA 2 wasn't bad because of this trend in Bioware's thinking, almost entirely spawned by EA being money grubbing whores and doing to Bioware what they did to every single other good RPG maker they have consumed over the past two decades, is nonsense. You're basically arguing with Bioware's own statements at this point, as if you know their intentions better than they themselves do.
BioWare Writer Describes Her Gaming Tastes; Angry Gamers Call Her a
Dragon Age 2 lead dev: | PC Gamer
BioWare: We Want Call Of Duty's Audience - NowGamer
They literally came out before DA2 came out and said they were turning their games into Call of Duty because they have lots of gamers who play RPGs but don't associate them as RPGs. Their entire goal was to water down as much of the RPG and classic gameplay elements as they could with DA2 because they thought it would turn the franchise into a new Mass Effect or Call of Duty ffs.
This is the kinds of statements that made Jennifer Hepler the focus of the hate. She was literally saying things like "The thing I hate most about games is the gameplay" for fucks' sake.
Fuck yes I'm unhinged over this. Strategic party based RPGs are my favorite thing in the world and when Bioware turned DA2 into Mass Effect with swords and Dragons, that shit fucking cut me deep. I've already said I"m proudly jumping off buildings over this one particular game and issue.
The assertion that DA 2 wasn't bad because of this trend in Bioware's thinking, almost entirely spawned by EA being money grubbing whores and doing to Bioware what they did to every single other good RPG maker they have consumed over the past two decades, is nonsense. You're basically arguing with Bioware's own statements at this point, as if you know their intentions better than they themselves do.
BioWare Writer Describes Her Gaming Tastes; Angry Gamers Call Her a
You want more of the tone deaf bullshit Bioware was spewing over this game and their writers and developers and heads of promotion and shit were barfing out prior to DA2's release that shows exactly what their mindset was, exactly what their priorities were, that are more than evidence that their priorities in terms of what they were focusing on in development were totally off track, just ask. I have boatloads of them.
iannis
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DA2 and TOR make me happy because they failed. Miserably.
That pandering social crusader justice bullshit... I am ecstatic that it failed. Bioware turned into a company ofposeurs.
There aren't enough Tanoomba's in the world to make Bioware turn a profit, and that is a very good thing. Now when you have that type pipe up ("The female gamer demographic really wants to play an empowered gay man" and "Are we doing what we can to represent the marriage equality fight?" and "How can we raise awareness about the modern-day persecution of furries?") at design meetings all someone has to say is, "Bioware".
All things considered... that victory came cheap.
That pandering social crusader justice bullshit... I am ecstatic that it failed. Bioware turned into a company ofposeurs.
There aren't enough Tanoomba's in the world to make Bioware turn a profit, and that is a very good thing. Now when you have that type pipe up ("The female gamer demographic really wants to play an empowered gay man" and "Are we doing what we can to represent the marriage equality fight?" and "How can we raise awareness about the modern-day persecution of furries?") at design meetings all someone has to say is, "Bioware".
All things considered... that victory came cheap.