Dragon Age: Inquisition (Plot Details in Spoilers!)

hodj · Nov 17, 2013

He's talking about turning the gameplay into pressing basically one button over and over. Like what we're getting in Ryse apparently. A bunch of QTEs without any penalties that can be beaten without even pressing the button.

This is what people are riled up about. Its almost more a rebellion against the entire trend of the industry to dumb down and pander to every segment and every demographic and focus on everything but the one thing that matters: Making a good game.

khalid · Nov 17, 2013

hodj_sl said:
This is what people are riled up about. Its almost more a rebellion against the entire trend of the industry to dumb down and pander to every segment and every demographic and focus on everything but the one thing that matters: Making a good game.

Yeah but I don't get why it bothers someone that their mom could play DA:4 or whatever by just spamming one button, as long as there is good gameplay if you don't set it to "movie mode" or whatever.

The problem with Ryse isn't that you can just spam one button and beat it (assuming the story is interesting enough to carry that). The problem is that they didn't include any other mode for people that actually want to PLAY a game.

hodj · Nov 17, 2013

Because to get to a gameplay point where one button spamming is possible, they had to strip out the tactical elements, limit the camera to about 3 feet behind your back and make combat something where you can spam attacks in general, rather than having to think about where you're standing, how you're casting your spells, how the dragon is facing. DA:O had MMO style gameplay with the holy trinity where positioning actually almost kinda mattered.

That shit was ripped out completely.

Turning it into basically an action RPG on its face removes much of the tactical depth of the gameplay.

khalid · Nov 17, 2013

I think you need to play DA:2 again then. The gameplay in DA:2 is better than DA:O. The classes are better balanced (there is actually reason to play a melee!), positioning sure as shit does matter, in fact you could argue it matters more with melee AoE. The main complaint about the fights from people that have played it is that they hated the enemies "parachuting" in. To me that was to fix the issue in DA:O of how you could get AoEs to hit every enemy and completely lock down a fight from the getgo. It made a lot of fights in DA:O trivial as fuck.

Also, I still don't get how you think in order to "dumb it down" to one-button gameplay, they had to do something else. The "casual" gameplay in DA:2 is not really any easier or simpler than any other rpg played on easy. The fights are trivial regardless of what you do.

hodj · Nov 17, 2013

The gameplay in DA:2 is better than DA:O.

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree right here bro. It is not. Not even close. It is not. You cannot go into an isometric view, your characters will not remain in positions you put them in, every single thing about it is inferior in every single way. In my opinion. It is shit.

And there is no fucking way I will ever. EVER. play that game again. Or any of its sequels. Or anything from Bioware. Its just the way its gonna be. You will not change my mind on this. I would rather cut off my arms and never play video games again.

Zhaun_sl · Nov 17, 2013

I won't say DA2 is better, but several things you just mentioned, hodj, just aren't true about DA2.

hodj · Nov 17, 2013

What isn't true?

Dragon Age II for PC gets new tactical view, no toolset - Atlanta Video Game News | Examiner.com

Dragon Age: Origins was a hit when BioWare released it last year but it included differences between the PC version and what was released on the PS3 and Xbox 360. The differences were understandable as the top-down isometric view fit the PC mouse and keyboard control scheme but not the gamepads for the consoles.However, PC owners shouldn't anticipate a return of the isometric view for Dragon Age II according to Bioware.

Citing that Dragon Age: Origins sold more on the PS3 and Xbox 360, lead designer Mike Laidlaw says that the isometric view has been removed from Dragon Age II. "For budgetary reasons, we focused our work on a 3rd person view, that asks for very detailed and nice textures so that the player can admire the game with a close-up view. With an aerial view [isometric] we should cover much more ground and so create other textures."

Instead, Dragon Age II for the PC will feature a sort of hybrid camera that won't pull out as far as before but will still allow the player to move the camera around the map and issue orders.

This kills the Dragon Age.

notice the pandering to the console crowd and the completely dropping the single distinguishing feature that makes the PC version of DA:O "the spiritual successor" to Baldur's Gate 2.

LadyVex_sl · Nov 17, 2013

There was a lot that suffered in DA2 but the writing was still pretty good. Also, go back and play games like Baldur's, NWN etc...there are plenty of romance elements, and while they're not as "in your face" as DA2 Anders was, (and just for the record, NO ONE is as bad as Anders) there are still plenty of instances where they will bring in romance without you actively seeking it. As an example, despite choosing all the chaotic evil options for my rogue/assassin/shadow dancer in NWN2, Casavir, the lawful good paladin STILL fights over me with Bishop. And bitches be tripping, cuz no one can hold a candle to Bishop.

ANYWAYS...DA:O was very well done; it wasn't a new Baldur's Gate, but then again, if you expected Baldur's Gate when it was clearly marketed as a "Spiritual Successor" and not a straight up sequel, then you're probably not altogether right in the head anyways. DA:O was a nice touch back to those RPGs of yesteryear, and I loved it. It was close enough to the old RPGs to draw me in, new enough to keep me interested, and different enough to keep me entertained.

Props for listing Planescape though because holy shit, that is STILL my favorite RPG of all time and if you love RPGs and haven't played Planescape: Torment, I think you go to a special level of hell when you die.

Edit: I also don't understand how DA:O wasn't considered a spiritual successor; what did people want? It gave me the same good vibes I got while playing BG; not as accomplished but still in that vein.

It's done "in the spirit of", not necessarily "exactly like". I don't really see the problem with the deviation. Would I have loved something closer to BG? Of course; those RPGs rate extremely highly in my book, but I found DA:O to be very good in it's own right. Hell, DA:O even had enough of a difference in endings to rival Mask of the Betrayer for NWN2. I mean, Mask was fucking phenomenal, so I won't place it right beside it, but a good show nonetheless.

hodj · Nov 17, 2013

The issue isn't romances, the issue is focusing on the romances instead of making sure the game doesn't suck. Which they failed to do in the case of DA2, ME3 and SWTOR. Romances in Baldur's Gate were a tiny fraction of the game, only developed in the second title and never meant to be anything but kind of hoaky and silly. There was not full on sex scenes, yes animating that shit does take time away from making...you know...the actual game not suck, its a waste of animation time, its a distraction from the purpose of the game, which is to be a good game, not a shitty day time television show. There is a massive difference between romance in BG 2 and modern Bioware romance heavy melodramas with some occassional gameplay in between. Sex does not sell video games to me. It sells porn to me, except I don't buy porn because that's just retarded. Sex is not something that sells me on a game. Its a net negative to me if its larger than a tiny fraction of the game. When it is the core of your marketing campaign along with PRESS BUTTON RECEIVE AWESOME, we have a problem.

No one expected DA:O to live up to Baldur's Gate. What we expected was that DA2 would improve on the attempt to live up to Baldur's Gate by DA:O, which we were not given.

It was close enough to the old RPGs to draw me in, new enough to keep me interested, and different enough to keep me entertained.

Right, and DA2 was the knife in the back after they drew me in and distracted me with shiny things.

khalid · Nov 17, 2013

hodj_sl said:
You cannot go into an isometric view,your characters will not remain in positions you put them in,every single thing about it is inferior in every single way. In my opinion. It is shit.

And there is no fucking way I will ever. EVER. play that game again. Or any of its sequels. Or anything from Bioware. Its just the way its gonna be.You will not change my mind on this.I would rather cut off my arms and never play video games again.

Bolded the important parts of your post. You are wrong that your characters won't stay where you tell them to, in fact its critical to beating several of the boss fights to keep your characters in the same spot. You can put them on hold and they will stay. Positioning is absolutely part of DA:2 gameplay.

However, the last bolded part is really the important thing. You have closed your mind to new information. Sad. At least you have only closed off your mind to something as trivially unimportant as this. Don't do it in your profession pls!

LadyVex_sl · Nov 17, 2013

hodj_sl said:
The issue isn't romances, the issue is focusing on the romances instead of making sure the game doesn't suck. Which they failed to do in the case of DA2, ME3 and SWTOR.

No one expected DA:O to live up to Baldur's Gate. What we expected was that DA2 would improve on the attempt to live up to Baldur's Gate by DA:O, which we were not given.

Right, and DA2 was the knife in the back after they drew me in and distracted me with shiny things.

Fair enough; DA2 was very forceful with romances, I agree, but I still think they improved on several things. I also don't think DA2 is being championed by anyone. I liked it, did not love it, but liked it, because as stated before, I tend to like just about any RPG.

Also, I gotta say I'm sort of disappointed you disliked SWTOR. The story and the actual "roleplay" element of that game was pretty awesome; it's just that every other thing about it sucked. If they shut SWTOR down and just gave you the storylines as KOTOR 3 it would be fantastic.

hodj · Nov 17, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Bolded the important parts of your post. You are wrong that your characters won't stay where you tell them to, in fact its critical to beating several of the boss fights to keep your characters in the same spot. You can put them on hold and they will stay. Positioning is absolutely part of DA:2 gameplay.

However, the last bolded part is really the important thing. You have closed your mind to new information. Sad. At least you have only closed off your mind to something as trivially unimportant as this. Don't do it in your profession pls!

Look, I played through the beginning and those fuckers would not stand still for me. Maybe they fixed that shit in a patch, but they would not work and I have absolutely closed off my mind to Dragon Age 2. You aren't going to make me like something I don't like dude. I dunno what to say. Its the one game that if you asked me what is the one game I really hate, its that game. I really fucking hate what they did to that series with that game. Nothing is going to change my mind on that. Its important to me because I grew up playing iso metric viewpoint strategy rpgs and dungeons and dragons. They're my favorite genre, my favorite type of games, and I felt really betrayed by what bioware did with that franchise.

I dunno what to tell you bro, they shat in a bowl of my favorite cereal. Thats some fucking hate.

Did you ever play the Dark Sun games on the PC or the Gold Box games? If you don't have this life long love of this genre, maybe you just can't understand. Its kinda like how pissed off old Fallout fans were when they found out Fallout 3 would be a shooter rpg basically.

Yes DA 2 permanently rustled my jimmies in a completely unreasonable way that no one will ever be able to talk me down from the ledge on. I happily admit that.

This shit was my childhood. When bioware raped Dragon Age, its like they raped my childhood man. I mad.

LadyVex_sl said:
Also, I gotta say I'm sort of disappointed you disliked SWTOR. The story and the actual "roleplay" element of that game was pretty awesome; it's just that every other thing about it sucked. If they shut SWTOR down and just gave you the storylines as KOTOR 3 it would be fantastic.

I'm already in trouble for not liking DA2 even though I'm in the extreme majority on the issue in terms of the core gaming base and the game massively underperformed its predecessor in terms of sales for exactly that reason, so I'm not even gonna touch that shit with a ten foot pole.

khalid · Nov 17, 2013

hodj_sl said:
Did you ever play the Dark Sun games on the PC or the Gold Box games? If you don't have this life long love of this genre, maybe you just can't understand. Its kinda like how pissed off old Fallout fans were when they found out Fallout 3 would be a shooter rpg basically.

I played the shit out of the Gold Box games. I am the hardest of the hardcore Gold Box fans. In fact, I spent forever beating Pools of Darkness Challenge mode and writing up a guide for it, with maps and everything. I still keep around the paper copies of the maps I made of Pools of Darkness and the Challenge mode. I even kept a old-ass 386 around for years simply for the Gold Box games, since it wouldn't run on my newer computers and the "slowdown" programs tended to be dodgy as fuck.

The gold box games fucking rock, no doubt about it. That doesn't mean DA:2 is a bad game simply because it didn't allow isometric view. DA:2 was a huge letdown because of constantly regurgitated textures. However, its combat was the strong part of the game. It finally succeeded in doing something that has been a problem in RPGs since forever, which is making melee as fun to play as mages.

The story for DA:2 was also quite good, but I can see the complaints here. You go from an entire continent down to a single city-state. If the textures hadn't constantly been used over and over again, it might not have felt so small. However, the story being centered around one city and the reused textures made it feel like you were in a game with 4 rooms.

Zulst_sl · Nov 17, 2013

I found Hodj's missing button.

hodj · Nov 18, 2013

khalid_sl said:
The gold box games fucking rock, no doubt about it. That doesn't mean DA:2 is a bad game simply because it didn't allow isometric view. DA:2 was a huge letdown because of constantly regurgitated textures. However, its combat was the strong part of the game. .

It does to me, and no, it wasn't. You're not going to change my mind on this. Its a fucking awful game. And so I missed a fucking button. I turned the game on, and the immediate impression was one of disgust, I wasn't interested in trying to figure out every detail of it immediately, the game is fucking trash. The fact is that I shouldn't have to hit a special button to hold them in place. I should be able to....zoom out to isometric point of view, move the character where I want them, and them stay until told otherwise. Just like Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins.

I play these game pausing every few seconds. I don't know what else to say. I want to micromanage my characters positions, spells, every single detail and I do not feel that I get that degree of control and precision from the non isometric point of view. Its a personal preference. Dragon Age Origins provided that, Dragon Age 2 stripped it away and in the process killed the game for me, no matter if you could position units in a particular place or not.

I do not like the style of gameplay that Dragon Age 2 consisted of. I do not find the combat changes improvements, I find them drastic steps down from Dragon Age Origins. I do not find the game to have any redeemable qualities. Not a one. Nothing you can say or do is going to change that fact. I. don't. like it. That's my opinion and I have a right to it. In my opinion, Dragon Age 2 is the worst game I've played in my life and literally nothing can change that perception.

Tuco · Nov 18, 2013

hodj_sl said:
The issue isn't romances, the issue is focusing on the romances instead of making sure the game doesn't suck.

This is pretty much your flawed reasoning here. You're assuming that Bioware sat down and said, "Ok, we need to distribute the budget. Because we're spending X dollars on designers, devs, writers and artists to do romance options for the characters we simply can't ensure that the encounter design doesn't suck."

ME3 sucked because the lead writer went rogue and wrote a bunch of shitty elements into the plot and ignored the real talent. DA2 sucked for so many different reasons, a focus on romance would probably be 8th most determinant if you made a list.

As for the shit about non-gamers being able to treat the game as an interactive movie, I don't really care. Virtually any RPG I've ever played has faceroll combat if you outlevel the content enough. From rogue to ultima to BG2 to everquest to DA2. If I like the game it's being played on hard. If easy-mode allows bitches to streamroll combat with no involvement I couldn't care less. And I don't feel that option degrades the experience or permits developers to not make a compelling combat system.

Xalara · Nov 18, 2013

DA2 had a lot of improvement over DA:O. Really, if you ignore the parachuting monsters and lazy level design DA:2 is arguably better than DA:O*. Granted those two things are huge aspects of the game, but the point stands. Plus Bioware was actually trying to do something somewhat unique with the story so I will at least give them points there.

* Ok maybe ignore Anders too.

Zhaun_sl · Nov 18, 2013

See, I didn't find the combat/gameplay improved enough that it took my attention away from all the suck. I wouldn't qualify the classes/skills/powers in either as "good".

Sulrn · Nov 18, 2013

Xalara_sl said:
DA2 had a lot of improvement over DA:O. Really, if you ignore the parachuting monsters and lazy level design DA:2 is arguably better than DA:O*. Granted those two things are huge aspects of the game, but the point stands. Plus Bioware was actually trying to do something somewhat unique with the story so I will at least give them points there.

* Ok maybe ignore Anders too.

Maybe its my fault for playing from the 360, but combat was most definitely not improved - especially from the focus on "action rpg". Mechanics were largely the same, the only difference is instead of selecting, pointing, and watching you're targeting and mashing buttons. Dodging was glitchy as fuck, stunning/crits/hit registration was buggy as fuck, and skill sets were narrowed. How is that an improvement? Is button mashing an improvement - because everything in between wasn't.

Zulst_sl · Nov 18, 2013

Xalara_sl said:
* Ok maybe ignore Anders too.

From my recollection, you can almost immediately tell Anders to fuck off after the deep roads. Then you never see him again until you satisfyingly lop his head off in act 3. Not to mention, he's the only way to save your sibling if you decide take them with you into the deep roads. I always felt having them join the grey wardens was a better option than having them join the templars/circle of magi anyway.

Dragon Age: Inquisition (Plot Details in Spoilers!)

Vox Populi Jihadi

Unelected Mod

Vox Populi Jihadi

Unelected Mod

Vox Populi Jihadi

shitlord

Vox Populi Jihadi

shitlord

Vox Populi Jihadi

Unelected Mod

shitlord

Vox Populi Jihadi

Unelected Mod

shitlord

Vox Populi Jihadi

I got Tuco'd!

Golden Squire

shitlord

Deuces

shitlord