Dragon Age: Inquisition (Plot Details in Spoilers!)
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Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
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No need to be intentionally obtuse, saying one specific aspect of game design is superior isn't the same as saying a whole game was superior. BG2 was amazing for a whole ton of reasons which had nothing to do with the way dialogue was managed.
Hell, can you imagine how good it would be if they combined the two? I'd give my first born, or at least a limb, for a remake which doesn't touch the content or gameplay any more thanabsolutelynecessary, but redesigns it in 3D with a high end graphics and Mass Effect style cinematic dialogue and voice acting in place of the text box*. It would even be worth removing the option to choose your race because, lets face it, the different was purely aesthetic anyway.
*but for the love of god, not that shitty abbreviated dialogue choice wheel.
/erection
Cantatus
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Yeah, why can't we have sort of a hybrid of both a Shepard type the style of character from DA1? DA2's flaw wasn't necessarily that they included Hawke, but that they included him in such a limited fashion in a franchise that was meant to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. If they wanted Dragon Age to be a more cinematic experience, they should've done so in a way which retained the customization options which allowed you to feel more connected to your character.
And yes, I realize that fully voice-acting several race/gender combos would require a lot more work, but at this point, if BioWare wants to reclaim the notoriety they once had, it's definitely going to require going above and beyond and just blowing us away in whatever their next game is going to be. As it is, BioWare needs to find a new way of telling a story that isn't such a binary good/evil option system, and this could work very well with that.
Zaphid
Trakanon Raider
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If they wanted more cinematic experience, they shouldn't have called it Dragon Age 2.
Bioware needs to stop putting in meta moral choice meters and putting in special rewards for maxing them. I should be able to decide based on the choices presented, not due to some meta reason that gives me arbitrary points.
Vorph
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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They also should never have called DA:O a spiritual successor to BG2.
I agree with the rest though; BioWare's morality systems are as painfully awful as the writing for their "romances".
Factual for you - not for everyone. This is why it's your opinion.
Myself, in Mass Effect etc, I turn subtitles on and skip dialogue as fast as I can read it. I simply don't care about listening to my character be voiced, hence, the customization allowed by having a silent protagonist is vastly superior to having a voiced protagonist.
But, I'm able to recognize that not everyone has the same preference as I do.
No, it's really not my "opinion". It's fact - that system is superior from a Narrative and Storytelling perspective over silent protagonists and how Bethseda does things in every single way.
TES games don't have a story to speak of, hell they don't even try to have one. They're an afterthought, a joke. On the plus side you can say that those games aren't really about that, they're about fucking around and exploring and shit so their complete lack of a narrative and storytelling doesn't matter much. To try to say that there is even a speck of quality in how they present things on story level though is some asinine, koolaid drinking bullshit.
TES games don't have a story to speak of, hell they don't even try to have one. They're an afterthought, a joke. On the plus side you can say that those games aren't really about that, they're about fucking around and exploring and shit so their complete lack of a narrative and storytelling doesn't matter much. To try to say that there is even a speck of quality in how they present things on story level though is some asinine, koolaid drinking bullshit.
Vorph
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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How is Jade Empire any different from Mass Effect? Open Palm and Paragon are both the stereotypical "nauseating do-gooder" and Closed Fist/Renegade ranges from "selfish prick" to "obnoxious psychopath". At least the evil sides are good for a laugh though, good just makes me want to vomit.
To me, the silent protagonist is far superior, and voiced protagonists just annoy me. This is equally as factual as the fact you claim.
Well, there's no accounting for Bad Taste.
If you take a pile of dogshit in your hand and smear it all over a canvass it's not art, it's dogshit smeared all over a canvass. That's what Bethseda's style of storytelling and narrative is, dogshit smeared on a canvass. Now someone might try to tell you that's art, but chances are they eat paint chips. There's a level where subjectivity is complete bullshit. Stop eating the paint chips.
If you take a pile of dogshit in your hand and smear it all over a canvass it's not art, it's dogshit smeared all over a canvass. That's what Bethseda's style of storytelling and narrative is, dogshit smeared on a canvass. Now someone might try to tell you that's art, but chances are they eat paint chips. There's a level where subjectivity is complete bullshit. Stop eating the paint chips.
I, of course, said nothing about the Bethesda games. I'm not a big fan of the storytelling in them myself, so that's a poor comparison. At least the Elder Scrolls games don't try and fit in a voiced protagonist to make it's poor storytelling even worse.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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You mean it's really not that different from kotor's light/dark side? Although I guess I should clarify a bit. Mass Effect is where they started making the renegade actions more of petulant douchebaggery, the fact that they started calling it paragon and renegade wasn't what I was complaining about. In Jade Empire, 'Closed Fist' had some pretty fucked up things you could do throughout the entire game. Hell, one of the very first evil things you can do in Jade Empire is permanently cripple one of your fellow students, for no reason other than sadism. In Mass Effect, you become a renegade by punching a reporter and hanging up on the council during after mission briefings. Now granted, a military operative (Mass Effect) has a lot more oversight than the leader of an adventuring group (KOTOR/Jade Empire), which may interfere with your ability to get away with some of the really evil shit, but it seems like it would have been trivially easy for Shepard to get away with a lot of shit if he were inclined towards evil.
Didn't help in Mass Effect 2 when they watered down Paragon vs Renegade even further, or even flip flopped on it like they did with Legion's loyalty mission.
Didn't help in Mass Effect 2 when they watered down Paragon vs Renegade even further, or even flip flopped on it like they did with Legion's loyalty mission.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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But yeah, when I play an RPG, I provide the voice for my character. I don't need it provided for me.
And any attempts to do so are a jarring experience that takes me out of the role I'm playing. It's for that reason that I've only completed one Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy 9 for instance.
For those that prefer fully voiced characters; I'm glad they make games for your preference. I, however, continue to be glad that games are made for my preference as well.
And any attempts to do so are a jarring experience that takes me out of the role I'm playing. It's for that reason that I've only completed one Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy 9 for instance.
For those that prefer fully voiced characters; I'm glad they make games for your preference. I, however, continue to be glad that games are made for my preference as well.
JRPGs and not the kind of silent protagonists or narratives being talked about. Bad troll is bad.
Cantatus
Lord Nagafen Raider
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It's two very different ways of telling a story. In a game like Mass Effect, it's much more blatant. It's akin to how a movie tells a story. There's an obvious protagonist with his objective, but you're getting to choose how his story plays out. The Elder Scrolls/Fallout 3 is more like a tabletop game. You're being provided a very fleshed out world, but you get to approach things how you want and create your own story. One is more about narrative; the other is more about immersion. One is more about creating a story around your character; the other is more about creating a story about the environment you're in. Both are telling a story, just in very different manners.
That's why I was disappointed when DA2 switched over to how Mass Effect does the story. In my opinion, there's enough room in the genre for both approaches, and it would've been great to see BioWare develop and innovatebothrather than taking the lazy approach and make all their games relatively similar.
In my opinion, the difference comes down to that Jade Empire system was integrated into the world much better. The Open Palm/Closed Fist philosophies are both discussed in the game and become a natural part of the narrative due to it. The Paragon/Renegade system always felt a little more mechanical to me, like it was just a stat I was having to raise to ensure I got the ending I wanted.
Though, obviously, both still have their faults. Inevitably, they become more about making sure you choose the right thing to say rather than how you feel the character you've created would actually respond. For a genre that is supposed to be about roleplaying, it's a very flawed form of storytelling due to it encouraging restriction.
Then stop being so narrow minded and the ultimate bad troll. People have brought up examples, you've shot them down for no reason more than apparently no game can be compared. Let's not forget your original words:
"I'll take Hawke and Shepard over any silent protagonistever"
Bold and underline is my emphasis.
Ever means ever. Now people bring up examples and you keep giving lame-ass excuses why they don't fit your narrow definition. Let me clue you in son, "ever" is a pretty broad definition, not narrow. For you, "ever" apparently means "only applies to RPGs made on the Eastern Seaboard of the United States that aren't part of the horror genre, first-person perspective, and was made within the past 2 years". Except you're upset we aren't mind readers to figure out what you mean by "ever", which for literate people is more closely translated to "in all instances". If anybody is trolling here, it's you.
the silent protagonist is a more effective way of allowing the player to feel like he's part of the story. that's precisely the reason that viewpoint is used. i'm not even sure why we started focusing on elder scrolls games because countless games have used the silent hero to great effect.