dude, elder scrolls games are populated with hundreds of npcs who share information about the games' worlds and often send you on quests. that's what storytelling is.
Dragon Age: Inquisition (Plot Details in Spoilers!)
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Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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How does that compare to any form for storytelling OUTSIDE OF GAMING? You claim our definition is narrow, yet yours can only apply to a single genre really and ours can encompass every entertainment medium. When it only works for one genre (or to be devil's advocate in case I'm missing some - a few genres) and another definition works for them all, how exactly is the one that fits all narrow?
the problem is you think the traditional linear form of storytelling with a primary conflict and climax is the only one that exists. while games like fallout 3 and skyrim do have central plots, their strengths lie in the breadth of secondary conflict and character personality. every conversation you have involves storytelling. every quest involves storytelling.
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Oh, the childish and completely ineffective "that's just your opinion!" attempt to discredit something. No sir, what I said was completely factual.
DA2 was just ok, I prefer DA:O over it if compared either product in its entirety. I've probably commented Ad nauseam on this, but Mike Laidlaw. One of the few people that I'd like to punch in the throat, if I could reach through the internet.
I don't really have any hopes for DA3, but I'll probably play it.
I don't really have any hopes for DA3, but I'll probably play it.
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It is neither childish, nor ineffective. There are people that like silent protags and those that like ME3/DA2 style. So it really does boil down to opinions, tard.
Venijk
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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This looks a lot like appealing to "opinion" because you don't actually understand the concept of storytelling well enough to defend your point.
people are placing too much emphasis on character perspective. a silent hero wouldn't change the storytelling of mass effect 3 much. like i said, it would simply change the way you relate to the character. you would feel like you were part of the story as opposed to being on the outside looking in.
You're joking, right? It's like you don't even understand anything that you aretryingto talk about.
oh, i forgot. you wouldn't be able to hear the protagonist speak in cutscenes. you have absolutely no idea why different perspectives are used. and there are games other than elder scrolls that use the silent protagonist convention.
i'm not trying to argue. i enjoy the more cinematic games with third-person views. all i'm saying is that there is a very good reason for using silent first-person characters.
i'm not trying to argue. i enjoy the more cinematic games with third-person views. all i'm saying is that there is a very good reason for using silent first-person characters.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Supertouch - The main thing with how storytelling in Elder Scrolls/Fallout 3 works (NV to a lesser extent - NV is probably the best example of storytelling in an open world format in fact) is that largely the storytelling is being done by YOU, instead of being a scripted thing with limited avenues that they can tighten up narrative flow and everything, it's entirely up to you.
I can absolutely see the "storytelling aspect" but again, it's like the canvas and paint = art analogy I gave before - it's not much of a story when the product lands in your hands - YOU make a story, and your story might be completely different than someone else's - which is awesome, but it can easily go the opposite way as well.
Especially bad in the ES/FO3 variant is the whole "the world levels with you" thing that reduces tension and other important storytelling elements. (Note that say Dark Souls did semi-open world with a similar "you've got to look for it" storytelling - but due to static difficulty that gated many areas for a while it still created a relatively constant narrative flow while being more minimalist than ES that honestly felt to me like a better narrative flow - words on a page it's probably as slim or even less - but yet creating a sense of tension etc does wonders)
And I'll absolutely agree that SOME games make it work to create a wonderful story - ES though are about the worst examples to use however.
I can absolutely see the "storytelling aspect" but again, it's like the canvas and paint = art analogy I gave before - it's not much of a story when the product lands in your hands - YOU make a story, and your story might be completely different than someone else's - which is awesome, but it can easily go the opposite way as well.
Especially bad in the ES/FO3 variant is the whole "the world levels with you" thing that reduces tension and other important storytelling elements. (Note that say Dark Souls did semi-open world with a similar "you've got to look for it" storytelling - but due to static difficulty that gated many areas for a while it still created a relatively constant narrative flow while being more minimalist than ES that honestly felt to me like a better narrative flow - words on a page it's probably as slim or even less - but yet creating a sense of tension etc does wonders)
And I'll absolutely agree that SOME games make it work to create a wonderful story - ES though are about the worst examples to use however.
Azrayne
Irenicus did nothing wrong
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The point is that they're two different forms of RPG, I think silent protagonist works best for open ended ES type games (at least until it's viable to create voices for dozens of race/class combinations), but for the relatively linear games with a strong protagonist around whom the story moves, like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, the voiced, relatively-preset hero provides a better experience.
That said, one thing I didn't like about DA2 and the Mass Effect sequels is the lack of gear customization. Restricting the ability to customize gear setup doesn't provide anything extra to the game experience, it's just plain lazy, and robs the game of a lot of it's RPG feel.
That said, one thing I didn't like about DA2 and the Mass Effect sequels is the lack of gear customization. Restricting the ability to customize gear setup doesn't provide anything extra to the game experience, it's just plain lazy, and robs the game of a lot of it's RPG feel.
Agreed. I think the people that are arguing in favor of silent protagonist aren't even really doing that. At least for myself I enjoy the directed protagonist when it makes sense as in ME but I don't feel that in every situation a voiced/directed hero is hands down superior to a silent main character as Sean was stating with his sweeping this is fact proclamation.
Bigguy28
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I'll take a voiced character every time if I'm allowed to make my own character, but if my character has to be silent for me to make the character I want I'll choose that over a character that is "here's your character pick your class". I'm far more connected to my Skyrim characters and my Wardens in DA:O because I got to make the characters I wanted. I loved my Shepards and Hawke was ok but they were Biowares characters not mine. I understand some games require that and that's fine, but they better give us a good character and not "Oh something big happened I could have prevented, guess I better take care of it now" Hawke.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Pretty much this.
I like me some story in me RPGs and I couldn't finish TES 3, 4 and 5. An hour or two in each only.
Nebuchadnezzar
Golden Squire
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Personally, I'm always more concerned with party members over protagonist, be they silent or Shepard/Hawke. Anders being a huge twat and being the only real healer was a much bigger problem for DA2 than Hawke. Same with Skyrim having virtually no character I cared about...really at all, outside of "me".