Elden Ring - From Software + George RR Martin

Phazael

Phazael

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Rajaah said:
I think Caelid is singularly responsible for a ton of the "Elden Ring is too hard" articles/posts/memes and whatnot.

Where should Caelid fall in the progression? I think after Altus Plateau but before Mountaintop. So probably like... Mt. Gelmir / Volcano Manor / Imperial Capitol tier? Maybe before those?

Seconding that Southern Limgrave is the key and I didn't start making progression in this game until I went to that area. I think that should be the goal before Margit is. Like Margit should be one of the last things done in Limgrave. A lot of people wouldn't be beating their heads on that fight that way.

But yeah, I bet a ton wander into Caelid well before they're supposed to and think it's the normal game progression and get rolled. The single biggest thing I'd tell new players to steer clear of (well besides Caelid itself) is that trapped chest that puts you in a nightmare-dungeon in Caelid. That place took a couple hours of my life trying to get out and I could see a lot of people just noping out and missing out on the game.
Click to expand...
On a new game, I sneak up there in Caelid as soon as I can swing a bleed weapon to gank that sleeping dragon and get the higher level smithing stones near it. Once that is done, I finish all of the Lake Region up to the lift before I ever come back. Most of it, aside from a couple of the outdoor bosses, is quite doable before Atlus. This is especially true if you want to build around specific weapons found their like the GUTS, Moonveil, Naginata, ect. Really the best indicator of progression is what stones drop in the dungeons found there, which places Caelid before Atlus.

My standard progression goes like this when I start over (bear in mind I am ruching to a +10 weapon asap) a new game:
Fuck around Limgrave long enough to be able to weild one of the three bleed weapons found there (Reduvia, Flail, or Utichunga Katana) easily.
Go kill sleepy dragon in Caelid (nailing boat boss 1 along the way) and level up to the intended weapon build I am aiming for. If sorcery, I do the early rock toss/grav staff grab around here too.
Clear Heights fortress and grab snap emote from Blaid.
Go to the south island area and clear it all, finishing with the fortress (esp if I am going unga bunga).
Clean out Stormveil, which should be simple at this point.
Clear out the lake, knocking out the Manor before the castle in order to get Rani quest and Poop Man Summon questlines started.
Go back to Caelid to get second amulate half from the rape fort near sleepy dragon, then do first underground river area (this can be skipped depending on build)
Knock out Radahn battle quest then go do underground city for Rani quest.
Do Selia to get Mellicent quest chain going.
Clear overworld crap in Atlus for whatever you need and bells. Knock out castle as early as possible for robot arm for Millicent quest.
Do White Mask quest to get access to Mogh's area, then suicide grab Ancient Stone and bird farm if needed.
Clear as much of Volcano Manor as possible short of Rykard (if you want the assasin quests) to get all the stones needed to make a +10 weapon, plus getting certain seals depending on build.
Clear out outer moat area of Capitol and any remaining dungeons of interest in Atlus, Mountains, or Caelid. Then broom out the entire capital, grabbing the sewer camp asap.
Once all bosses are cleaned out, broom out the Sewers all the way down, then clear anything desired from Mt Gelnir that you might have ignored.
Go rape Mogh now if your build works for it, then proceed to Giants area clearing it all and getting the secret area cleared out asap (lots of good shit here).
Beat Firegiant but don't burn the tree (need to decide on Frenzy and grab any missed loose ends in the capitol) until you have cleared the entire Haligtree from top to bottom.
Die 40 times to Melina before pussing out and summoning another player.
Burn tree and clear all of Faram Azul, doing Placidex last. Then go back to ashen city to grab a few things and finish the game.
 
Talos

Talos

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OU Ariakas said:
I never understood how people could be playing an open world game and go to a place where suddenly the enemies take 4-10x more regular attacks to kill and deal 3-5x the amount of damage than the things you were just fighting and think "this is the right path, the developer made this too hard!!!" Like, think back across all the games you've played or ask a single person who has played a FromSoft game and they will tell you to just go find the other way to go.
Click to expand...
Well I've played all the other souls games so I realized I was probably in the wrong area. But it's like an OCD thing or something where that playthrough felt corrupted, unclean, because I wasted so much time in Caelid.

So I just said fuck it, plus they were still releasing patches so I figured I'd just wait a year. I have such a giant backlog (and dota) so it's not like I didn't have other stuff to play.
 
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Phazael

Phazael

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Another thing to consider is that vets of the series are probably good enough with the mechanics to fight the harder shit under leveled. That being said, some areas are simply just gear checks with the mob mechanics and Caelids giant dogs and birds are in that category. The other reason to put of Caelid is you really want Flame Cleanse me before fucking around in the rot areas and it is available in the lake area. You can bypass Stormveil, but it pooches some quest chains to do so.
 
jayrebb

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Phazael said:
On a new game, I sneak up there in Caelid as soon as I can swing a bleed weapon to gank that sleeping dragon and get the higher level smithing stones near it. Once that is done, I finish all of the Lake Region up to the lift before I ever come back. Most of it, aside from a couple of the outdoor bosses, is quite doable before Atlus. This is especially true if you want to build around specific weapons found their like the GUTS, Moonveil, Naginata, ect. Really the best indicator of progression is what stones drop in the dungeons found there, which places Caelid before Atlus.

My standard progression goes like this when I start over (bear in mind I am ruching to a +10 weapon asap) a new game:
Fuck around Limgrave long enough to be able to weild one of the three bleed weapons found there (Reduvia, Flail, or Utichunga Katana) easily.
Go kill sleepy dragon in Caelid (nailing boat boss 1 along the way) and level up to the intended weapon build I am aiming for. If sorcery, I do the early rock toss/grav staff grab around here too.
Clear Heights fortress and grab snap emote from Blaid.
Go to the south island area and clear it all, finishing with the fortress (esp if I am going unga bunga).
Clean out Stormveil, which should be simple at this point.
Clear out the lake, knocking out the Manor before the castle in order to get Rani quest and Poop Man Summon questlines started.
Go back to Caelid to get second amulate half from the rape fort near sleepy dragon, then do first underground river area (this can be skipped depending on build)
Knock out Radahn battle quest then go do underground city for Rani quest.
Do Selia to get Mellicent quest chain going.
Clear overworld crap in Atlus for whatever you need and bells. Knock out castle as early as possible for robot arm for Millicent quest.
Do White Mask quest to get access to Mogh's area, then suicide grab Ancient Stone and bird farm if needed.
Clear as much of Volcano Manor as possible short of Rykard (if you want the assasin quests) to get all the stones needed to make a +10 weapon, plus getting certain seals depending on build.
Clear out outer moat area of Capitol and any remaining dungeons of interest in Atlus, Mountains, or Caelid. Then broom out the entire capital, grabbing the sewer camp asap.
Once all bosses are cleaned out, broom out the Sewers all the way down, then clear anything desired from Mt Gelnir that you might have ignored.
Go rape Mogh now if your build works for it, then proceed to Giants area clearing it all and getting the secret area cleared out asap (lots of good shit here).
Beat Firegiant but don't burn the tree (need to decide on Frenzy and grab any missed loose ends in the capitol) until you have cleared the entire Haligtree from top to bottom.
Die 40 times to Melina before pussing out and summoning another player.
Burn tree and clear all of Faram Azul, doing Placidex last. Then go back to ashen city to grab a few things and finish the game.
Click to expand...

I still remember all the fucktards saying don't kill it because it could affect story. CoNSseqUenCes.
 
Phazael

Phazael

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My guess is that he was meant to be a quest NPC at some point but got cut due to time limitations (similar to the Mimic Tear quest line being dumped).
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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OU Ariakas said:
I never understood how people could be playing an open world game and go to a place where suddenly the enemies take 4-10x more regular attacks to kill and deal 3-5x the amount of damage than the things you were just fighting and think "this is the right path, the developer made this too hard!!!" Like, think back across all the games you've played or ask a single person who has played a FromSoft game and they will tell you to just go find the other way to go.
Click to expand...

The reason that happens is probably because new players hear all the game journalist griping and bitching about how hard the game is, so they're conditioned to expect something that whoops their ass, so when they go over the wrong bridge and end up in hell, they think it's normal despite that it should be like a neon sign telling them to go elsewhere.

No game with level-ups is too hard. You always have an out in the form of more levels. Unless something is tuned for absolute max level, like the superbosses in FFX-2. Man, F that game.

Aside from game journalist wailing, something else that's almost as dumb: I've seen several, yes, several people who gave up on the game because they couldn't beat the Tree Sentinel. They ran into it, tried fighting it a bunch of times, and thought that was like a normal enemy or something so they gave up. Again, going off their conditioning to be afraid of the game. Also seen several people who quit on Margit, and all of them pretty much went straight to the fight without doing much else. Meaning they were probably way un-prepared, but regardless they beat their heads on the fight a bunch of times and then quit.

I think the most insidious thing about game journalist bitchwhining is that they teach people to be afraid of shit, and want to remove all elements of risk from the game (therefore killing the point of the game).

These games teach you to not be afraid of anything, that's one of the reasons they're so great.
 
Phazael

Phazael

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To be fair, Margit is a bit of a fuck you for long time Souls vets too, with the hyper aggressiveness and multiple feinting that is all over this game, compared to its predecessors. Basically, if you were a vet used to shit like Last Giant, Phalanx, or similar first real bosses, Margit is a pretty massive change. If I have one major bitch about this game in terms of its difficulty curve, its the vast number of super agro bosses with relentless attack patterns and how every fucking mob in the game feints (even fucking zombies and blobs). If you want to spam against the RNG, then go play Bloodborne. I want methodical combat based on knowing the reads and executing them. Margit is pretty much the epitome of this change and he is the first major obstacle you run into for progression. Obviously on repeated plays, he is no longer an issue but its annoying to a vet expecting certain mechanics the first couple times.

And the beastman boss in the bottom of Morne Isle fortress is not much better on that front, though he at least can be unga bungad. But there are way to many enemies in the game that are essentially like the Crucible Knights. Super Agro, immune to just about everything status wise, infinite Poise and Stamina, and tons of fuck you AEs to further punish mele. The main reason Sorcery (or shooty weapon art) builds dominate this game so much is because they have made melee combat a RNG and AE rape fest in most cases. And thats not even talking about mobs that completely rag doll you or guard break you in a single hit when blocking, of which there are tons. It would be nice if the game was more about methodical tactical fighting and less about alpha striking with an all offensive setup.
 
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Kajiimagi

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This game was easy. I came on asking for advice, was told 'get gud fgt' and bash with 2h dual swords/STR. Profit!
Is the expansion out yet?
 
jayrebb

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The expansion is probably over a year out. I'd say next summer is a possibility. Maybe Spring if it's been in the pipeline this entire time. Toward 2025 if it just started production when they announced it.
 
Rajaah

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I assume the expansion will be around the two year anniversary of the game, so February 2024, and that they've been working on it the whole time. Going off of the release windows of other Fromsoft DLCs in the past. This one is also gonna be significantly bigger than any other Fromsoft DLC obviously. I bet it'll be like the size of Limgrave, so basically adding another province to the game. I don't think it'll be in 2025 though, that'll likely be where their next full game is.
 
cradeg

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50 hours ago I started this game as a mage, as this should be easier for people like me that are terrible with any melee character. I have to say this game is by far the best thing I have played in the last 20 years. The mixture of finding new locations with the constant risk to loose some progress is just making it perfect for me. I am only in the lake zone currently and just managed to beat the Moon Queen :) ... I really have a good time where normally nothing holds my attention for more than a couple hours and I have high hopes on the expansion pack
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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cradeg said:
50 hours ago I started this game as a mage, as this should be easier for people like me that are terrible with any melee character. I have to say this game is by far the best thing I have played in the last 20 years. The mixture of finding new locations with the constant risk to loose some progress is just making it perfect for me. I am only in the lake zone currently and just managed to beat the Moon Queen :) ... I really have a good time where normally nothing holds my attention for more than a couple hours and I have high hopes on the expansion pack
Click to expand...

I've seen people online complain about the progress loss and having to worry about losing experience points or whatever.

And I'm like...dude, that's one of the things that makes the game so exciting to play.
 
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Fogel

Fogel

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Besides, if you're an idiot running around with more than a level or two of runes, you get what you fucking deserve.
 
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Caeden

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I’m probably one of the few that “struggled” with mage builds but felt the game got “casual” with 2H swords even with the fuck you AEs. But I played mostly on easy with the tear
 
Dandai

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Zullie dropped his first vid in a while. It goes over some potential DLC hints, dev stuff behind Miquella’s in game model, etc.

 
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