Engagement rings

Heylel · Feb 26, 2013

I recall this being discussed either on FOH or MoreNetz briefly, but I don't see a thread here.

Anyway, I'm going to start shopping for a ring soon, and I'm pretty much a stranger to the entire process of buying jewelry. I've purchased a couple of necklaces from places like Macy's or Kohl's in my time, and that's about it. Even the thought of walking into an actual jewelry store is kind of intimidating, because I'm that far out of my element.

I'm looking for some hints of where to start. My girl isn't the sort who is going to get hung up on how much a ring costs. She wants something she'll enjoy wearing, but we've discussed the prospect of marriage and she's much more concerned about just having *a* ring than having a really expensive one. There are definitely some personal preferences which I'm aware of, but no ultimatums on where it's from or how much it cost (I know a guy whose wife refused to accept his proposal until he bought her a $40k ring that she picked out herself).

I'm certainly *not* going to spend the recommended 2-3 months salary on a ring. I'm not putting five figures into something that most pawn shops won't even accept because they've got so many of them. I'm not a rube; diamonds are mostly about perceived value and there's absolutely no secondary market to make the investment stick. I just want my girl to be happy and say yes so we can start our lives together.

So yeah, halps.

Deathwing · Feb 26, 2013

Can't help you out because I was able to use my wife's grandmother's wedding ring as her engagement ring. 0 dollars and tons of sentimentality! Actually, is there something like that in her or your family? Some sort of heirloom.

I want to hear what happened to that guy with the stuckup bitch.

Alkorin · Feb 26, 2013

My wife chose her own engagement ring. It wasn't expensive, but she took one look at it and knew it was the right one. Of course, there are two dangers in doing things this way.

1. The element of surprise isn't there anymore. My wife knew I was going to propose, so it wasn't an issue for us.

2. She might pick the 2-3 month salary ring, but if you know she won't, no problem. I knew my wife wouldn't go for an expensive ring on purpose, because she doesn't agree with that notion.

She still loves that ring, years later, by the way.

Heylel · Feb 26, 2013

They're married and living in China. She's from an immigrant Chinese family with a chain of restaurants, he's from Sweden and works for some kind of oil conglomerate with a Chinese office and pulls down a quarter mil. They live in a walled complex with security guards and she has a driver, personal shoppers etc. Not bad for a bitchy hair dresser with a high school education. She's not even especially hot.

The only "heirloom" ring in my family would be my mother's wedding set that she retained after she and my father divorced, and I'm not about to ask for that outright. If she offered it, I'd consider that, but I wouldn't ever expect that. My grandparents are all still with us, and going as far back as my grandparents on either side both families were very poor, and I doubt there's a ring to be had. Certainly none that I'm aware of.

I'd like to spend less than 3k if I can. I think I can swing that, but I'm not about to put a ring on any kind of credit and anything more would be difficult. I'm also planning to wait a couple of months to actually buy, since I'm told that sales are poor in spring because of tax season.

Falstaff · Feb 26, 2013

My advice would be to stay away from mall jewelers and Tiffany's... Tiffany's because you pay a premium for the name and no one will ever know that you got it from there vs anywhere else. Mall jewelers because they have a stigma but I really have nothing to back that up so check them out if you want. Check a place like Costco even if you want.

Regarding color, in my opinion, anything "Near Colorless" will most likely be fine. You shouldn't have to go to Colorless and as long as she takes care of the ring and cleans it every once in awhile, I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference.

Clarity is kind of the same thing... anything Flawless and Internally Flawless is going to be at a premium. My wife's diamond is VS2 and you can't see any inclusions without a magnifier and the difference in price between that and something that was IF was like double the price of the diamond.

Cut depends on her preference so find that out. Also know if she wants diamonds in the band, smaller diamonds flanking the stone (whatever those are called), etc.

Tarrant · Feb 26, 2013

I work with a girl who told her b/f to not bother to propose to her unless he has a ring worth more then $16,000. That's how much his bike cost and she wants to be the most valuable thing in his life, not a bike.

I then told her that's cool that she maintains the old world views of women being posessions...she got mad at me and isn't talking to me anymore.

Heylel · Feb 26, 2013

Wow. If a girl I was serious about ever told me something like that, it would be over in a heartbeat. Bitch is looking for a payday.

Haast · Feb 26, 2013

Learn the 4Cs of diamonds. You can find it anywhere using Google, here isBlue Nile's guide.

Learn them not because you <3 the jewelry industry; learn them so you can MINIMIZE your cost for a nice stone. Understand what a carat is and how different sizes look (this may require a store visit). Understand that the human eye cannot detect the difference between color grades above a certain level. Understand that it takes a pretty big "flaw" before it would ever be noticed by someone. Understand that cut will most directly affect how the diamond looks next to carat weight.

Carat size will drive the price, with color, cut & clarity set to minimum specs you need to meet. None of your girl's friends are going to get out a jeweler's loupe and inspect it. And if they do, kill them all and bury them somewhere to save humanity.

Blue Nile is a good starting point unless you know someone in the business or are willing to roll the dice on resale.

Tuco · Feb 26, 2013

http://diamondssuck.com/

website_sl said:
8 Reasons Why Moissanite is a Better Choice than Diamond for Fine Jewelry, Particularly Engagement Rings:
1. Engagement/wedding rings have sentimental value, not asset/investment value. Wedding rings do only two things: (1) look pretty and (2) provide a symbol / memento of the event. Accordingly, you're best served by purchasing a high quality ring that meets these two criteria at the lowest possible cost. The cost/quality/durability attributes of moissanite make it much more attractive than diamond for use in wedding rings.

2. All moissanite gems are near flawless. Since moissanite can be reliably made in a laboratory, it's easy to do quality control. Instead of selling anything that comes out of the ground, flawed moissanite can be identified and discarded. This means the moissanite you buy will be a much better quality stone than a more expensive diamond.

3. Spending less on the stone means you can spend more on the setting. Since people notice the setting more than the stone itself, the lower cost of moissanite means you have far more options to make your ring unique while keeping within your budget. Side stones, crafted bands, and bezel-set accents are all suddenly within your budget.

4. You won't start your married life in crushing debt. It's often said that financial issues are the biggest cause of arguments and difficulties in a marriage, sometimes leading all the way to divorce. Doesn't it make sense to ensure you and your wife-to-be are in the black as soon as humanly possible? Saving for a down payment, creating an emergency fund, and putting aside money to invest are all substantially easier when you're not paying hundreds of dollars a month to the lending institution that financed the diamond purchase.

5. Speaking of financing: you'll probably be able to pay cash for moissanite. If you plan ahead, you'll be able to purchase the ring with cash, avoiding interest charges that make a diamond ring even more expensive. (9.99% - 27.99% APR, anyone?)

6. Other people will assume the ring is made of diamond, since they won't be able to tell the difference. I'm not one to pass something off as another, but the reality is that people are so brainwashed about diamonds that everyone who sees your fianc?e's ring will assume it is made out of diamond. (Most of the time, it's not worth explaining to them it's not.) In the 6 months my fianc?e has had her ring, 100% of the people who have seen it think it's diamond. If you're worried about a "loss in prestige" if someone notices, rest assured that other people will never know unless you tell them. (Note: do not try to buy your fianc?e a moissanite ring and pass it off as a diamond. Honesty is key - talk to her about it first.)

7. You can rest assured that your hard-earned money isn't subsidizing African warlords. Sleep easy - no innocent people were killed in the creation of your fine jewelry.

8. You get more bling for your buck. Given a fixed budget, you have far more creative options with moissanite than you do with diamond. Want a 2 carat solitaire? Go for it! Custom design also becomes a very affordable option. Design a ring that fits your fianc?e perfectly! Your bride-to-be will love the fact that you put your creativity into the purchase, and she'll love telling her friends what good taste you have.

(diamond is on the right, moissanite left)

Bottom line: Diamonds are for suckers. They're not very rare gems nor are they that special. It's all bullshit. Women are pretty susceptible to stupid jewelry purchases, which you'll examine for yourself when Etoille finds this thread and demonstrates an incompetent level of pride in being good at wasting money on expensive rocks.

The way I convinced my wife to accept moissanite was I talked budget with her then showed her what we could get if we bought diamonds vs moissanite. At anything less than $10,000 it's impossible for diamonds to compete with any real objectivity.

Haast · Feb 26, 2013

Tuco_sl said:
Bottom line: Diamonds are for suckers. They're not very rare gems nor are they that special. It's all bullshit. Women are pretty susceptible to stupid jewelry purchases, which you'll examine for yourself when Etoille finds this thread and demonstrates an incompetent level of pride in being good at wasting money on expensive rocks.

The way I convinced my wife to accept moissanite was I talked budget with her then showed her what we could get if we bought diamonds vs moissanite. At anything less than $10,000 it's impossible for diamonds to compete with any real objectivity.

This is 100% true. However, you MUST let her know in advance about this plan like Tuco did. Big props to him for apparently being more convincing than me. I tried everything, including making her watch Blood Diamond.

DON'T buy a diamond substitute and tell her it's a diamond. Convince her that the substitute > the real thing, which is true.

Heylel · Feb 26, 2013

I've looked into that, and we've discussed it briefly. She has a sentimental attachment to the concept of a diamond, but I think a lot of that has to do with not really being able to visualize the different relative to the money being spent. I should probably try and plan a short trip to a jewelry store and have her give me some indication of what style she likes anyway, so that'd be a good time to look at our options.

I realize that diamonds are a manufactured rarity. Ultimately, that rationale only works if the girl is on board with it. If she *wants* a diamond, it doesn't matter what I end up buying because if it's not a diamond, it's not what she wanted. I don't think my girl is really that way, so I may try and look into a moissanite. She even suggested at one point just going and getting a cheap ring for a couple hundred dollars for now, and looking at something nicer down the road. We both want to be able to officially move in together, which she can't do until she's engaged because of her family's disapproval. We're living together anyway, but she has to keep her apartment for appearances and it's costing us hundreds per month to keep two households. A quickie ring would have fixed that, but I kinda want to do it right the first time.

Xequecal · Feb 26, 2013

Honestly, while her friends aren't going to inspect the diamond, they ARE going to ask her how much it cost, and unless she plans on lying about that, they'll know immediately that it's a substitute. If she doesn't tell them the price they'll also know, as anyone with a diamond ring of that size is just itching to brag about it to anyone who will stand still for 30 seconds.

Heylel · Feb 26, 2013

I have no intention of telling her how much the ring costs, no matter what it is.

Tenks · Feb 26, 2013

Xequecal_sl said:
Honestly, while her friends aren't going to inspect the diamond, they ARE going to ask her how much it cost, and unless she plans on lying about that, they'll know immediately that it's a substitute. If she doesn't tell them the price they'll also know, as anyone with a diamond ring of that size is just itching to brag about it to anyone who will stand still for 30 seconds.

I know plenty of married/engaged women and zero ever ask how much the ring costs. That sounds like the most autistic question you could possibly ask someone.

Eomer · Feb 26, 2013

^yeah, I would agree. They will ask how many carats the diamond is or some other details, but I can't imagine many women outright asking how much the ring is worth, nor one answering that directly.

I have no advice to offer, sadly. I'm quite happy though that when this conversation came up with my girlfriend (one of her friend's got engaged or something, we aren't talking marriage, fuck no!), she wanted nothing to do with a diamond for the "right" reasons. She's all in to sustainability, local food sourcing, ethical treatment of animals etc. so she pretty much agrees that diamonds are a sham. She said she'd like an antique looking ring, nothing too fancy. I can't remember what kind of stone she said, but it wasn't anything ridiculous.

Long story short, if somewhere down the road I decide to propose to her, it would appear that spending fiddy bucks at a pawn shop will probably be more than enough. Huzzah!

Joeboo · Feb 26, 2013

The problem I found with Moissanite is that she wanted to see one in person to make sure it didn't look significantly different than a diamond to the naked eye, and there was nowhere in my city that carried any jewelry made with them at all. So basically I ended up spending 2-3x as much on something we could see in person(diamond) rather than risking a grand or two buying something completely sight-unseen off of the internet.

And yes, avoid ALL chain stores. Zales, Helzberg, Kay, etc. They all blow. They sell pretty low-quality diamonds compared to what you would get form your local mom & pop store for the same price. You really just have to shop around, but avoid any chain like the plague.

Tuco · Feb 26, 2013

Yeah I've never heard of a woman asking how much a ring costs. Maybe that's more prevalent in the circles Xequecal is in, and I could see it being more common in a social circle where a 25,000USD+ ring is common (Where asking how much it costs is a gift of an opportunity to brag.

Heylel_sl said:
I realize that diamonds are a manufactured rarity. Ultimately, that rationale only works if the girl is on board with it. If she *wants* a diamond, it doesn't matter what I end up buying because if it's not a diamond, it's not what she wanted. I don't think my girl is really that way, so I may try and look into a moissanite.

There's a few things that made the moissanite argument hold weight against a woman suckered by retarded marketing:
1. Like I said before talk ring budget with her and set on a price. If she's an average woman it'll be somewhere less than $3000. Take her to a jewelry shop that sells moissanite (Be sure to call before you go, a lot of high end jewelers don't show them, I assume that's partially because they're considered low class and partially because they don't make as high of a profit because the price of moissanite is very strictly controlled).

If you really want to be convincing go to fucking JCPennies who only sell really shitty diamonds. At <$3000 for a loose gem the moissanite will win every time.

2. My wife is an artist and literally designed her own ring in illustrator/photoshop/whatever shit she uses. We then took it to a ring-dude who went through the whole wax->mould->ring process to create a genuinely unique setting that she dreamt up. Maybe it's just because we like creating shit but to us that's so much more precious than whether the rock in the setting is heavily marketed.

3. The blood diamond argument is just a demonstration of how shallow people really are. The main proponent of diamonds is DeBeers and their hands are FUCKING DIRTY. It doesn't matter whether your specific gemstone quality diamond was pulled by the bloody hands of a slave. When you buy a diamond you give money to DeBeers and assist their business model of blood diamonds.

But the bottom line? Women don't give a shit about it and I've never met a woman who wouldn't feel emotionally torn by watching a move like Blood Diamond and then pause to consider whether she should get a diamond for her ring. They don't care.

4. Moissanite is best marketed as a gem on its own and NOT a diamond replacement. It has similar but different qualities to a gem. They're both very reflective and both very hard. I think this pic describes it well (Moissanite on left):

My wife loves that it shoots out rainbows and has spent gratuitous amounts of time examining the reflective properties of the gem. In the right lighting it will literally plaster the walls with rainbows and she loves that.

5. Almost every diamond is flawed in some way, some only perceptible through a microscope/loupe. Moissanites are always perfect. I think women can appreciate that.

6. Carbon is one of the most common elements on earth. IIRC moissanites are literally grown from meteorites.

Tuco · Feb 26, 2013

joeboo_sl said:
The problem I found with Moissanite is that she wanted to see one in person to make sure it didn't look significantly different than a diamond to the naked eye, and there was nowhere in my city that carried any jewelry made with them at all. So basically I ended up spending 2-3x as much on something we could see in person(diamond) rather than risking a grand or two buying something completely sight-unseen off of the internet.

And yes, avoid ALL chain stores. Zales, Helzberg, Kay, etc. They all blow. They sell pretty low-quality diamonds compared to what you would get form your local mom & pop store for the same price. You really just have to shop around, but avoid any chain like the plague.

I find this really hard to believe. Virtually all the big department stores (Kohls, JCPennies etc) and half of the shit mall stores carry moissanite.

Heylel · Feb 26, 2013

I've found a lot of horror stories about walking into stores and being told moissanites are "fake" etc. Or hard sells on diamonds because they're better. That's going to annoy the shit out of me.

Tuco · Feb 26, 2013

Heylel_sl said:
I've found a lot of horror stories about walking into stores and being told moissanites are "fake" etc. Or hard sells on diamonds because they're better. That's going to annoy the shit out of me.

This kind of salesmanship works against them when the customer is informed. If you educate a buyer on the common lies told by salesmen their words sound as sinister venom to ones ears. This is especially true with such trivial and discrete evidence like a fucking rock. Show a woman a moissanite in natural light and she'll be completely turned off by a douchebag salesman who tries to convince her it looks yellow in natural light.

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