i like realistic combat but i just don't see how that kind of coordination between several people would be feasible. in real life, your movements would be much more intuitive and enemies would die in one hit so i don't think it's fair to compare behaviors in that regard.
EQ Never
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Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Well, it doesn't have to be ultra realistic, that isn't fun for most players. But the trinity as it exists is already boring and extremely jarring to the fourth wall. The goal is to create a fresh, new, and engagingly immersive experience that the player enjoys.
One obvious path is to have limited collision detection. With shielded heavy armor up front and ranged damage in the back. Tactical awareness in the environment becomes important, such that the enemy doesn't do an end run and flank to your soft targets.
Groups then have to look for a suitable place to engage the enemy, preferably in narrow passages that can be blocked effectively. For dungeons this is easy to design. But effective natural defenses in the open world would not be as available, nor should they be. Fighting in forests and near large rock outcroppings would become important.
Just simple adjustments like these have a profound impact on the overall experience of the game. With proper group placement, the enemy could only attack the front line heavy armor because it has to go through the front line to reach the soft target damage dealers in the rear (or healers, if the game has them).
This is much more realistic, and it has the beneficial side effect that designing for PvP is easier, because the NPC actions would model those of real life players.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Is there anything official stating brad is on EQN? Where did you get that info?
Part of how the old aggro system worked was that it didn't if the softies went full DPS. These days that might be considered a slow mechanic.
Where it all went wrong with the aggro system in EQ was the damage output of mobs (cheal was at fault here), damage output of spells (+focii), damage output of weapons, hp of players and mobs all went out of whack, some increasing by a fixed amount, some increasing my a fixed percent and some just increasing wildly. This left DPs frustrated with tanks, tanks frustrated with their aggro and over time big changes to how aggro worked. It went from a scenario where DPS weren't minding their aggro to one where tanks(warriors?) practically needed to have gear a tier above the rest of the group.
Where it all went wrong with the aggro system in EQ was the damage output of mobs (cheal was at fault here), damage output of spells (+focii), damage output of weapons, hp of players and mobs all went out of whack, some increasing by a fixed amount, some increasing my a fixed percent and some just increasing wildly. This left DPs frustrated with tanks, tanks frustrated with their aggro and over time big changes to how aggro worked. It went from a scenario where DPS weren't minding their aggro to one where tanks(warriors?) practically needed to have gear a tier above the rest of the group.
Where the fuck do think they moved him to bro after he and sillus destroyed eq 2 even more.
He been their long time now, he is either the Exec Producer or Senior Im not trolling.
Polejumper should not be in charge of team of 2 Meth, Crack whores let alone project like this.
I spoke to him, he is their.
He still with soe also no longer on the VG team, so where do think they sent him?
I spoken to him few times, cant say more.
Worry about Sillus, and Smokejumper more then Brad and mean that in good way.
When Brad is allowed to be Brad stress free, not worry about shit he never should have No one thinks out of the box better then Brad.
Jeff Butler is their to.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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GW2 fails imo. Their aggro model doesn't work for PvE. It becomes the exact issue that supertouch brings up. It is a kiting game and that is never fun.
GW2's WvW does have potential and is a lot of fun at first. But it doesn't have any depth, nor does it represent their PvE and GW2's PvE is what makes their game shallow and derivative. Much of their systems are a step backwards from GW1 and actually copy WoW. Being a WoW PvE daily / instance clone is a safe play, but it doesn't make you great.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Sure, if they made that game I would play it, and have fun.
But even better would be a total redesign. Like they did with Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek. Just throw out all of the old boring bullshit, and start again. While taking advantage of the new hardware, new software and all the lessons learned. More importantly,use and abusethe new creative talents that are screaming to show the world what they are capable of.
Blow up all of the old conventions. Modern mmorpgs are dead. The only path to greatness isRebirth.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I haven't played Mount and Blade yet. My example is just one obvious way to change the archaic aggro model most mmos still cling to. There are any number of ways to change it. The point is that the existing trinity aggro model is old, stale and extremely limiting.
Almost every mmorpg is a clone of the muds that Brad played before EQ. Those ancient text based muds created the aggro model most modern mmos continue to use to this day. An aggro model that didn't account for any sort of 2d or 3d space, but was in fact created because there were no dimensions in early text game play.
Those basic aggro conventions were created for limitations we are not bound by. It doesn't make sense to still be still be using them.
Almost every mmorpg is a clone of the muds that Brad played before EQ. Those ancient text based muds created the aggro model most modern mmos continue to use to this day. An aggro model that didn't account for any sort of 2d or 3d space, but was in fact created because there were no dimensions in early text game play.
Those basic aggro conventions were created for limitations we are not bound by. It doesn't make sense to still be still be using them.
I'd love to see collision work properly, not just for blocking access to the back line, but blocking spells and arrows as well. Would be expensive to develop though.
That's the point.If you just get rid of tanking, the game goes Benny Hill. If you change tanking from aggro-based to collision-based, the first time the tank gets flanked (or stunned, or blinded, or whatever) the mob(s) run past...and the game goes Benny Hill and then the group wipes (while blaming it all on 'fail tank').
Aggro-based tanking is popular in MMOs becauseit works.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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I blame this thread for giving me dreams that wake me up in the middle of the night.
So I dreamed about SOE unveiling for Valentine's day (why Valentine's day? a gift?) a fully playable Everquest III "which is a completely different game from Everquest Next". A F2P kind of EQ1-GW mashup, with a single character slot but you could buy more slots with a weird store currency that looked like a round blue coin with a copper center with an etched X. The chars looked cartoony-wowish (I blame modern games for warping my expectations), but at least ogres still scratched their asses. The game would let you equip 10 action slots for actions/spells, which had any number of commons, up to 3 uncommons, 1 rare and 1 elite. You could pick action booster packs at the store, or go hunt outdoor rare spawns for uncommons, dungeon nameds for rares, or raid bosses for elites.
I was offered in Kelethin the option of "classic start" somewhere on a random ass platform (did we really spawn up there?) or at the bottom of the lift. The Priest of Discord was there, and he let you access a full pvp version of the outdoor zones, which you'd go to hunt for rare spawns if they were not spawned in normal world (I think).
You would equip "classes" as actions; so you could equip a Warrior slot to be able to wear plate and add a Taunt action, but also a Cleric slot which would give you plate as well and add a HP group buff which was automatic (but if you tried to equip a sword, you'd be told that you would lose the cleric slot). I think I had the war, cleric and necro "cards" (which looked like Endless Space action cards, for some reason), but I didn't care about necro.
Unfortunately, I didn't see any fights because I had a parched throat, which woke me up and let me remember all this. I'm sure there was more at Orc Hill, but that's dreams for you...
So, anyway, a little distraction while we wait for the Fan Faire...
So I dreamed about SOE unveiling for Valentine's day (why Valentine's day? a gift?) a fully playable Everquest III "which is a completely different game from Everquest Next". A F2P kind of EQ1-GW mashup, with a single character slot but you could buy more slots with a weird store currency that looked like a round blue coin with a copper center with an etched X. The chars looked cartoony-wowish (I blame modern games for warping my expectations), but at least ogres still scratched their asses. The game would let you equip 10 action slots for actions/spells, which had any number of commons, up to 3 uncommons, 1 rare and 1 elite. You could pick action booster packs at the store, or go hunt outdoor rare spawns for uncommons, dungeon nameds for rares, or raid bosses for elites.
I was offered in Kelethin the option of "classic start" somewhere on a random ass platform (did we really spawn up there?) or at the bottom of the lift. The Priest of Discord was there, and he let you access a full pvp version of the outdoor zones, which you'd go to hunt for rare spawns if they were not spawned in normal world (I think).
You would equip "classes" as actions; so you could equip a Warrior slot to be able to wear plate and add a Taunt action, but also a Cleric slot which would give you plate as well and add a HP group buff which was automatic (but if you tried to equip a sword, you'd be told that you would lose the cleric slot). I think I had the war, cleric and necro "cards" (which looked like Endless Space action cards, for some reason), but I didn't care about necro.
Unfortunately, I didn't see any fights because I had a parched throat, which woke me up and let me remember all this. I'm sure there was more at Orc Hill, but that's dreams for you...
So, anyway, a little distraction while we wait for the Fan Faire...
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I like how you use "Benny Hill" describing chaos... the music theme and comical characters chasing each other (in a 2x camera speed) is just hilarious.
Now the theme will be stuck in my head the whole day....
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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I understand you are in an awkward position here (giving you the benefit of the doubt). However, I would need evidence in regards to both of your posts regarding SJ, Sillus, and even Jeff Butler. I assumed Jeff would be on the staff and regardless of Brad's title, he's being asked questions and looking at various things but, to think that SJ and Sillus would have high dollar titles on a make-or-break project is beyond me.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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Some MMOs and other games did have collision for players, for example EQ1 and WAR on the MMO side, and GW1. For using physics and projectiles, any old shooter does that so it cant be that hard. Spells like Fireball? A grenade or missile with different graphics. Shape the AoE accordingly and set the projectile path etc depending on the spell. Doesnt strike me as that difficult, if a studio could get over copying hotbar combat.
I'd love a fantasy MMO that incorporates more action aspects like collision and environments like shooters or tomb raider style games have them in addition to the usual player vs mob angle. As another step towards an immersive world. There are some very small steps towards that in older games, and a bit more in GW2 but even that is still stuck in targeting + auto attack. I loved that you can knock mobs off ledges in TOR for example. That you had jumping as something you can improve on your character in DDO. The whole jumping puzzle idea in GW2 (though their camera is ill-suited to it). Anyhting that's more then "tab to target and then 1,2,3,4 until the mob is dead.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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What??? Kiting my ass. Very few mobs need to be kited if you make yourself a tank. The vast majority of mobs agro on the person with the highest toughness. Hell a damn thief using blind fields can tank.