EQ Never

The bottom line is that they are allowing people to test the game in an alpha state, and provide feedback during this process. I've yet to play an MMO that's done that.. You may see it as a chore to test/feedback, but some people actually WANT to be involved in the process and see how the game evolves from Alpha to release. EQ1 and Minecraft are two of my favorite games I've ever played, and being able to be involved in a game that combines them both is something I'm willing to put money towards. If this was any other game, I could care less.

And no, I don't expect the Alpha to be a perfectly stable client; that's why it's in Alpha. My computer is relatively new and can easily handle PS2 so I'm assuming EQN will be, at the least, playable. If you have so many reservations, then no, you shouldn't be giving them money.

kudos_sl said:

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lololooololol at this img

Laerazi_sl said:

This is the dumbest line of reasoning.. how does paying to play a game early vs signing up to be a tester correlate, at all, to someone's desire to test/feedback a game. If anything, the people who are willing to pay money for a testing position are MORE interested in the well-being/development of a game than a random person who can submit a beta app at the blink of an eye

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You'd have a point if the only two options were pay to beta test or random person signing up in a blink of an eye. Anyone else remember the days when you actually had to write out responses to questions to apply for beta? There are plenty of people who used to spend time building contacts and following games and participating in the community and applying to beta when it was actually an application process and not just registering for a website. Those people would also spend the time testing. Sure, some of those people probably still spend time testing whether they've paid for alpha/beta or gotten in through the simplistic methods currently seen, but there sure seems to be a lot less testing going on than there used to be, and a lot more bitching about how the game, whether a free or paid preview, sucks based on pre-launch builds. In fact, I used to be one of those types who'd spend hundreds of hours and forum posts testing and giving feedback in betas, but it's not really beta anymore, so I usually don't really give a shit anymore either and just wait for my free preview to decide if I want to buy a game.

Laerazi_sl said:

The bottom line is that they are allowing people to test the game in an alpha state, and provide feedback during this process. I've yet to play an MMO that's done that..

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That used to be how they were pretty much ALL done. It's just many people didn't know because the alpha/beta testing wasn't a cash grab or free preview for anyone willing to register on their website. If you actually like to test games, imagine getting to do it in a community of others there for the same reasons, instead of current games that were mostly just a bunch of people there for every reason other than testing and providing feedback.

They are playing on the fact that many of us MMORPG enthusiasts are bored off our asses right now waiting to try something new and interesting out, and they are dangling it over our heads for just a few bucks. They are doing it because they can. They know people will buy into it, and why turn down a perfectly viable opportunity to get some revenue flowing in for a game that, as of yet, has been eating into their profits? Not getting into the moral alignment of their business decisions, I am happy that they are going this route as opposed to making us wait until mid next year to sign up for beta tests. If you don't put worth into being able to experience the game early, and instead would rather keep your money, then you will do just fine to wait for release, or a beta invite of some kind. It won't hurt you in any way. It's simply another option, and options are nice. The alternative being no access to alpha, no extra revenue for the devs, and sign up for your chance to enter early beta sometime next year.

Laerazi_sl said:

The bottom line is that they are allowing people to test the game in an alpha state, and provide feedback during this process. I've yet to play an MMO that's done that.. You may see it as a chore to test/feedback, but some people actually WANT to be involved in the process and see how the game evolves from Alpha to release. EQ1 and Minecraft are two of my favorite games I've ever played, and being able to be involved in a game that combines them both is something I'm willing to put money towards. If this was any other game, I could care less.

And no, I don't expect the Alpha to be a perfectly stable client; that's why it's in Alpha. My computer is relatively new and can easily handle PS2 so I'm assuming EQN will be, at the least, playable. If you have so many reservations, then no, you shouldn't be giving them money.

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Convo_sl said:

I've been in plenty of Alphas.. No idea what he is talking about ha.. Again.. Imagine if people paid $100 to get into VG's alpha?! I bet at that time plenty would of.

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I think there is a basic disconnect between the terms alpha/beta in their original meaning and what they represent today. Maybe I'm wrong regarding Landmark but I'm guessing servers will be mostly up, for example. I would not have expected that from a B2P game in 2001, not even in a beta much less alpha. I would not have expected that from VG in 2007. But for the last few years all that has shifted as F2P swept away old concepts. When this goes alpha it wont be feature complete and it might have server issues, but the goal is certainly a high uptime, because that alpha is all about PR, not the actual game state. Same with beta, and moreso the so called "open beta" (we used to call this "going gold" back in the day, aka release). The actual release date is just another arbitrary point at which they need some extra PR because worthless gaming news sites will regurgitate their pre-paid opinion on the game.

And Convo you are right in many ways, but times have changed. Them selling this alpha is different then donating to kickstarter because (assuming I can pay that way) Paypal will give me my money back at the drop of a mail if I am not happy, for example. PGI who develop MWO had whole guidelines for refunding early purchases and official deadlines for no-questions-asked refunds, even months after you bought in. Kickstarter, not so much. For digital-only products alpha/beta with bonus junk is the equivalent of a collectors edition, and just like physical collectors editions you usually way overpay for some negligible benefit. That's not a new concept, its just a beta and a shiny ingame skin instead of some postcards with WC3 artwork and a soundtrack. And like others said, I can very much count on either getting what I pay for (quality of the game itself not guaranteed ofc, but thats also the case with a pre-order collectors ed), or getting my money back from SOE. On the other hand, if Chris Roberts decided to buy a yacht with the $25 mill and live out his days cruising the andaman sea I'm just out $30 and have nothing to show for.

The thing is, for an EQ remake or a semi-persistant wing commander universe I dont have the choice of buying from a publisher. It's either Mr Roberts or Mr. McQuaid or no game of that kind, really. So I am ok with giving them the money, but imo the odds of a completed product (regardless of quality) are worse then with a publisher. On the other hand, IF they succeed I would expect to have a product that stays true to its roots for a longer time then a publisher product. Big IF, though.

I'm actually torn on the SOE offerings.

I think the only real problem I have with it is they put out so few actual details of what you are buying. I don't really begrudge those who are already all in , your money is your money , I'm more irritated that it's SOE's somewhat arrogance at selling $100 blind faith packages. I just think they should have released far more info from the napkin table then put them up for sale.

Convo_sl said:

Basically my biggest issue. I have np tossing money at a project I have details about.. I'm really surprised more people arnt alarmed by this..I guess to me it would make more sense to have alpha by invite only and once you have a good idea of what will actually make it in at launch and your cash shop details...give players that info first then you put those packages out with beta for the top 2 and open beta for the $20 package. with a head start to the top 2 packages. There just isn't enough detail and a lot of what they are saying is we plan to add this and that but maybe not till later down the line..

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This is where I sit back and shake my head. If you really pour over what they've actually *shown* us, you start to realize just how empty this project is right now. It's a ton of promises and some incredibly boring time-lapsed videos of like 3 buildings. There's no substance to this project whatsoever. If this wasn't SOE and EQ, there wouldn't even be a thread for this game.

I don't have a problem with a company trying to make a buck by getting some early devotees to buy a pre-release pack. That's nothing new. I just find it to be a little bit audacious of them to basically say nothing for 3 months, and then the next "big announcement" issued from the company is a fucking sale on early access.

Oh, and this has done nothing but confirm that EQ:N is 100% whiteboard material. That's all. They built two example characters (Mufasa and Wizard Lady), put them in a tech demo, and then fired off a bunch of hypothetical game mechanics.

You guys can pull the old "well don't buy it if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to do anything" card out every time someone criticizes the direction they've take after this reveal, but it doesn't change how ridiculous it is for you to tell us that we shouldn't be critical of their strategy thus far. I'm sure they've put a nice little bit of seed money in the bank with this sale, but it should worry you at least a little bit that they're this desperate for cash.

Edit: This post was basically tacking onto what Convo said...I agree with him.

Convo_sl said:

Basically my biggest issue. I have np tossing money at a project I have details about.. I'm really surprised more people arnt alarmed by this..

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Most people just look at something and decide if they want it or not. I agree there's not enough details to make me jump head first, but I'm not going to come to a forum and whine about it.

Not every 'product' is designed for every person. There's probably a lot of people willing to throw down $90. But just because I'm not one of them doesn't mean I should think it's a terrible, scammy, money-grubbing idea.

And let's not act like this is the first game to let people pay their way into Alpha/Beta.

dgrabs_sl said:

You guys can pull the old "well don't buy it if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to do anything" card out every time someone criticizes the direction they've take after this reveal, but it doesn't change how ridiculous it is for you to tell us that we shouldn't be critical of their strategy thus far. I'm sure they've put a nice little bit of seed money in the bank with this sale, but it should worry you at least a little bit that they're this desperate for cash.

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The thing is, half of you guys are going to be critical aboutanythingthey say or do. It gets hard to take some people here serious after a while.

Teekey_sl said:

The thing is, half of you guys are going to be critical aboutanythingthey say or do. It gets hard to take some people here serious after a while.

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You realize they earned that reputation themselves?

Teekey_sl said:

The thing is, half of you guys are going to be critical aboutanythingthey say or do. It gets hard to take some people here serious after a while.

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This works both ways.

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Convo_sl said:

That's not true as I have not been overly critical of this game. I do have an issue with the packages tho. What games did people pay for Alpha? And did you have a shit load more of info about them?

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At most I don't mind seeing packages that allow you to enter either the last stage of a Closed Beta or close to it. I do not want to see paying for alpha or packages for games before they have even started testing the damn thing.

Convo_sl said:

. What games did people pay for Alpha?

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How about MineCraft, the very game EQNext is based on?

Teekey_sl said:

How about MineCraft, the very game EQNext is based on?

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Wasn't that made by 1 guy or some super small team? Not a huge corporation?