EQ Never

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Look at Landmark. I'll be shocked if it's official launch is this year. They'll tick it into open beta and ride it out for a while. It's the thing to do these days, just like DOTA2.

They're able to monetize beta and alpha, so there's no reason to rush.
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,472
1,664
Look at Landmark. I'll be shocked if it's official launch is this year. They'll tick it into open beta and ride it out for a while. It's the thing to do these days, just like DOTA2.

They're able to monetize beta and alpha, so there's no reason to rush.
Ok that I could see since it is f2p. So long as they have the cash shop up and running then that seems highly likely. Even when eq2 went f2p people were spending far more monthly on cosmetic shit.
 

symbelmyne_sl

shitlord
70
0
No, obv i havent but i dont claim to get this game out the door by 2015 as well. Heck i dont believe any date Smed or Ponytail give out to the public for any milestone or launch by now.
Dont get me wrong if EQN comes out 2015 ill sure as hell try it, but i dont see me spending any money on some pipedream SOE tries to sell the fanbois as the second coming of Nagafen either. Im beyond that, way beyond that after years of hit and misses.
Smed won't rush this to meet a public milestone if it's not ready. Too much is on the line here. A failed launch would probably shut them down.
 

Tropics_sl

shitlord
11
0
Smed won't rush this to meet a public milestone if it's not ready. Too much is on the line here. A failed launch would probably shut them down.
Tons is always on the line.

It boggles my mind how these companies can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on development over many years, get close to the finished product, and then rush it out the door not quite done causing a terrible launch and basically destroying their chance of long term success.

I could forgive the first company or two that did it, but with how many games have now done exactly the above I cannot see how something like a TESO launch is even allowed to happen at this point. Bad launches doom MMORPG's. There is no coming back from them, you have one chance and one chance only to release the game right and if you screw it up then you miss the chance of catching that initial influx of players and excitement that any MMORPG needs to last the long haul.

Devs need to get this through their heads, there is no "fixing" a game after launch. If you release before you should there is no fixing the damage you have done to your potential customer base, you will never be able to market the game or the changes you have made enough to make 5% of the people who tried the game at launch to take a second look or pay a sub once they have quit.

It is not about the game, it is about the perception of the game, you can fix a game, but you cannot fix what people think about your game after a bad launch.

It is like a new model of car, the initial ones out the door all have their wheels fall off, the brakes are terrible, many don't start, they are terrible on gas, they drive like crap, thousands of people have their vehicles recalled to fix a swarm of issues, the press lambastes the company for their terrible product.

Now a year later the problems are all fixed, people got their cars back and they actually seem to be pretty good now, the company really focused and fixed the issues and made the car everything it should have been to begin with.

But, your company is dead because none of the people who read those news stories about people who got these horrific cars are going to even think about buying your car now. Sure you fixed the issues, it might be the best car out there now, but the damage you did to the public image of that car is done and you cannot come back from it.

That is the MMORPG industry, they send out half finished products without enough testing, they have tons of issues and they crash and things don't work. The companies try to fix things, they get some of the stuff working well, but it is too late, the market image of their product is already finalized, you cannot change it, your game already has crap ratings in the PC game mags, it is already in the $15 bin at Walmart, the public have already decided your game sucks and they have already moved on.
 

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,376
1,077
Successful companies know when to not throw good money after bad. How long would these failed games you are talking about really have taken to fix?

Often when the game has some really core design issues that make it shitty they aren't even trying to fix them, the mediocre devs who made the mistakes in the first place don't realize their ideas are terrible until their failure comes in the form of subs plummeting instead of a few guys like us on forums shouting against the chorus of fanbois that all is not well.

TESO isn't a shit game because it has some lag and bugs, its shit because 3 or so years ago they made a whole bunch of terrible decisions that management probably truly believed were great ideas right up to the point where the ship started sinking. How does 6 more months fix that?
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
<Bronze Donator>
4,470
2,638
It's not just about game design, bugs and stuff...it's about accounting and cashflow.

The company might have certain financial obligation to meet on a certain date and need revenue from the game release to be able to meet them.

If they are unable to extend their financial deadline. They have to decide what's worse, not meeting their obligation or release a buggy product.

I think we know what happens in the MMO industry more often than not.
smile.png
 

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,376
1,077
Ya that too, I just usually try to ask myself not whether they could fix the game with more time, but would they?
 

Jim Russel

Lord Nagafen Raider
509
50
It's pretty obvious the solution is to not develop or invest in MMOs. At this point, the probability of producing a shitty flop is approaching 100%.
 

Korrupt

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,832
1,228
Tons is always on the line.

It boggles my mind how these companies can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on development over many years, get close to the finished product, and then rush it out the door not quite done causing a terrible launch and basically destroying their chance of long term success.
We do that in the finance world also. Work on projects for 2 years and then condense and rush a UAT thats supposed to take 6 months into 1 month.
 

Elidroth_sl

shitlord
350
0
Devs need to get this through their heads, there is no "fixing" a game after launch. If you release before you should there is no fixing the damage you have done to your potential customer base, you will never be able to market the game or the changes you have made enough to make 5% of the people who tried the game at launch to take a second look or pay a sub once they have quit.
Devs rarely have control over when a game is launched. Those decisions usually happen far above the people actually creating the game.
 

Felmega_sl

shitlord
563
1
As I said earlier in this massive thread, if EQNext doesn't deliver, Everquest as a franchise will die. MMO's are somewhat on the edge right now, there have been too many disappointments after WoW. If Next is just another ho-hum experience, the whole genre might take a nap.

Can SoE bring it with EQNext? There is a lot riding on the outcome.
 

Xexx

Vyemm Raider
7,472
1,664
As I said earlier in this massive thread, if EQNext doesn't deliver, Everquest as a franchise will die. MMO's are somewhat on the edge right now, there have been too many disappointments after WoW. If Next is just another ho-hum experience, the whole genre might take a nap.

Can SoE ? There is a lot riding on the outcome.
Im jaded since i spent the last 5 years or so playing EQ2 - So my answer is hell no, it would be nice, but highly unlikely to be positive from my experiences with them. Regardless i will play it anyways much like everyone else who hopes it will be good. I dont think any one MMO will save the genre, i think people will just need to be content with the fact that they will just need to find whats acceptable to them and saddle up with it as is.
 

Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
2,567
955
Im jaded since i spent the last 5 years or so playing EQ2 - So my answer is hell no, it would be nice, but highly unlikely to be positive from my experiences with them. Regardless i will play it anyways much like everyone else who hopes it will be good. I dont think any one MMO will save the genre, i think people will just need to be content with the fact that they will just need to find whats acceptable to them and saddle up with it as is.
Playing Eq2 since launch, I would agree that SOE has had a past of "bad choices".

But having seen a turn around in Landmark (At least communication wise...which is FAR better than they ever were in EQ or EQ2), I believe there is a good chance EQN can and will work.

If anything, at least they are attempting something different. (IMO)
 

Valderen

Space Pirate
<Bronze Donator>
4,470
2,638
MMO are not on the edge, even most failure bring in money, probably enough in most case to break even and turn in a small profit. Probably an awful return on investment though, but still it's worth pursuing as a genre because the few decent success rake in tons of cash.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,909
4,484
I think the biggest problem facing the MMO genre is that everything is turning into an MMO. Destiny, The Division, GTA, The Elder Scrolls series, the list goes on and on. All of these classically single player experiences are incorporating multiplayer in a HUGE way. The distinction between multiplayer and massively multiplayer is becoming so blurred as to be almost indistinguishable.

Good MMOs aren't historically known for their amazing gameplay so when you've got studios going for gameplay first, THEN adding a multiplayer layer on top of it, traditional MMOs just aren't that appealing. They lost their novelty years ago.
 

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
Tons is always on the line.

It boggles my mind how these companies can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on development over many years, get close to the finished product, and then rush it out the door not quite done causing a terrible launch and basically destroying their chance of long term success.

I could forgive the first company or two that did it, but with how many games have now done exactly the above I cannot see how something like a TESO launch is even allowed to happen at this point. Bad launches doom MMORPG's. There is no coming back from them, you have one chance and one chance only to release the game right and if you screw it up then you miss the chance of catching that initial influx of players and excitement that any MMORPG needs to last the long haul.

Devs need to get this through their heads, there is no "fixing" a game after launch. If you release before you should there is no fixing the damage you have done to your potential customer base, you will never be able to market the game or the changes you have made enough to make 5% of the people who tried the game at launch to take a second look or pay a sub once they have quit.

It is not about the game, it is about the perception of the game, you can fix a game, but you cannot fix what people think about your game after a bad launch.

It is like a new model of car, the initial ones out the door all have their wheels fall off, the brakes are terrible, many don't start, they are terrible on gas, they drive like crap, thousands of people have their vehicles recalled to fix a swarm of issues, the press lambastes the company for their terrible product.

Now a year later the problems are all fixed, people got their cars back and they actually seem to be pretty good now, the company really focused and fixed the issues and made the car everything it should have been to begin with.

But, your company is dead because none of the people who read those news stories about people who got these horrific cars are going to even think about buying your car now. Sure you fixed the issues, it might be the best car out there now, but the damage you did to the public image of that car is done and you cannot come back from it.

That is the MMORPG industry, they send out half finished products without enough testing, they have tons of issues and they crash and things don't work. The companies try to fix things, they get some of the stuff working well, but it is too late, the market image of their product is already finalized, you cannot change it, your game already has crap ratings in the PC game mags, it is already in the $15 bin at Walmart, the public have already decided your game sucks and they have already moved on.
I think they should have fixed this problem with having customers pay for alpha/beta access.
 

turbo

Molten Core Raider
1,238
106
I think they should have fixed this problem with having customers pay for alpha/beta access.
At first I was abit put off by this idea but the more I thought about it I love it as long as they remember while it is alpha the players who participate are still customers. Personally, i've busted ass in my life and make a very comfortable living and I have no problem supporting a product I really want to succeed early so if they want to charge me a few hundred dollars to get into alpha I am all for it. They have limited capacity, why not actually collect some cash for it instead of random bullshit or friends of dev's etc. Just make sure the alpha players have an understood responability of some level of feedback.

Extra cash flow generated this way should help provide some stability and assurances there is interest in the game as well as prolong the development cycle. There is going to be people crying about not having money etc to get into an alpha or they shouldn't charge for it but I don't think 90% of them are going to abandon the game before open beta/release just because. Plus I am sure they will almost always have a large amount of people willing to do this just because alot of us ultimately via games like this as a form of competition and want any advantage we can get. Fuck I dropped the cash on ArchAge with out hardly knowing about the game, unfortunately after playing abit I don't think i'll play but I was willing to take the risk since I don't play alot of games and if I need to risk abit of money now and then again to get in at the ground level on something I might wind up playing for for 3-5 years...well worth it for me and many like me.

Its a good practice overall if they properly use the cash coming in to allow for a PROPER release which we have only seen 1-2 of in the last 10 years in the MMO field anyway. It amazes me the shit they release sometimes or lack of forsight. FFXIV while it had it faults later on that made many of us quit, was quiet the amazing and polished game in many aspects out the gate but holy shit did the drop the ball on log in and instancing servers. In 2013 I don't know how you could have not learned from all the failures in the past and planned a head. And people like me who used his very valuable and limited vacation time to take a week off to compete get totally dicked by there stupidity and NO its not naive to think SOMEONE fucking would actually release a game without issues as the years progress....its possible god damnit.

Part of me is glad I think I'm done with MMO's for some time, playing Smite now and enjoying the middle ground of competition without hard core set time requirements etc but one day I know i'll finally give in and come back to the MMO scene but I sure hope something comes up that changes how these games are developed and released by the time I come back. Sadly EQN isn't my cup of tea so not sure what is on the horizon that will earn my business. I'd drop $500 in a heart beat for a vanguard 2 alpha that actual was going to result in a MMO that gave me the enjoyment and created the world/classes VG did minus the obvious tech and few design issues.