EQ Never

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
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If we use the ways you quoted to even up the ranged vs melee, then whats the point of you having to be a paper doll? I didnt really think about it the other day, but after some thought - that question does seem to have some legitimacy. As it stands right now in MMO's - A Warrior hits a mob for 600 four times over three seconds. A wizard takes 3 seconds to cast a 2400 damage nuke. If DND had more impact, just for example, a Warrior would do 20 damage in one round when a mage would do 60 damage in one round. That justified being weaker. But FF14, FF10, WoW, ESO,... fuck most mmos I know of .. Wizards do the same damage as Warriors and vice versa. There is just no point in being a paper doll, besides fulfilling the classic "look."
In the end, there shouldn't be a reason to make them paper dolls. The classic "look" can be made in character selection if you want it. Having restrictions like that in a PVE setting is limiting when it doesn't have to be. Plenty of games have figured it out even 15 years ago. I'm hoping they reduce the need for damage dealing being the primary stat. As mentioned before by others, reducing the influence of damage based game-play opens up a lot of other opportunities.
 

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Hell, EQ had methods of dealing with ranged dps. It was called summoning and using ranged attacks. Melee could get a defensive/avoidance buff when they are close to a melee oriented mob, while ranged/caster classes wouldn't get that so when they do get hit, they get hit a lot harder. There's more than a few ways to deal with ranged classes having such a big advantage.

As to why a mage wouldn't wear heavy armor... well he could, but then his spells would be much weaker/less varied or whatever to compensate for the added protection. And regardless, he wouldn't have the passives that a heavy armor melee would to enhance his defense. DnD did this by having the Arcane Spell Failure % on any armor above cloth/light armor in 3rd edition.
Quoting myself because I can't quote a post from 5 years ago on the Fohguild boards, but they really need to just take my skillsets based on gear composition and run with it, complete with set bonuses and ability synergies.

Way long, probably shouldn't read:

Anyone can wear anything, but they have no abilities besides like... origin or some shit. Each piece of gear gives them abilities. Equipping a scythe gives them a lvl1 Lifetap on hit ability. Equipping a plate BP gives them a weak mitigation ability. Extrapolate for all types of armor and slots. If you wear one piece of each type in each slot (ie plate helm, chain chest, cloth boots, leather pants, etc etc) you have a super diverse skillset but they are all fairly weak. Now say that each piece of armor has a tendency. Like, one plate BP has a mitigation effect, while another plate bp has an absorption effect. If you wear two pieces that have the same effect, you now have a lvl2 of that ability so it is strong/lasts longer/whatever increment better. But you are missing out on a different ability by having this. There are also diminishing returns by having the same skill on all pieces of armor. So If you are a tanking warrior dude, you want your swords that proc aggro effects (weapons can have all sorts of different combat effects) and armor that is a mix of tanking abilities but not too varied or they won't be super effective.

Now, for tiers of gear, you have dungeons that drop upgrades but require you to have the same piece of gear with the same effect but a lower version (Think Darkforged Bp to Umbral BP) which when you get the better BP, you lose the darkforged one and you now have an Umbral BP with a lvl2 mitigation effect all by itself. This goes for all slots, so in essence you are always leveling up gear when you find new pieces. Extrapolate and move forward. Eventually you start getting to tiers where you can combine two different items to get a combined effect. The absorption and mitigation breastplates (say, malevolent and blood lord's to use Velious SK gear as an example) and then you get the upgraded piece to that. You can now -choose- to incorporate both lower level versions into the higher level one but with the same effects, or boost one effect or the other. To go back and undo this, you need to run back to a newblar dungeon and level up another breastplate and then you can rechoose which one you want. Or have a crafter (oh shit, inter dependency!) create a tier below BP that you can then rechoose. Extrapolate for all types of armor. Set bonuses? If you wear 3 pieces of a type of gear, you get an additional ability(passive or active) that matches the flavor of the gear. Three pieces of Umbral armor at the same time means you get the level 3 mitigation, but you also have a 10% necromancy damage bonus as well. Extrapolate again.

Ability synergy: The more tanking based abilities you have (you can classify abilities like necromancy/elemental/survival/defense/physical/spiritual/etc etc) you start getting a base defensive bonus for having those abilities. Entire suit of plate armor with half absorb/half mitigation gives you a passive bonus to all physical defensive mitigation. You can even switch it up. Say you have half mitigation/half avoidance (you aren't wearing full plate, but say chain and plate) you then have a passive bonus to magic defensive mitigation. Extrapolate for all types.

For creating progressive tiers of difficulty, make it extremely difficult for someone using Mitigation lvl1 to survive incoming damage from a mob in a dungeon that is two tiers above him. If the healers in the group aren't healing with higher tier stuff, there's no way they can keep up with incoming damage etc etc. Or dps not doing enough damage to keep the mana in check. Or ability usage, or the cooldown timers aren't quick enough, whatever. You get my point.

You now have a maleable class system, a reason to do old content, and an intelligent way to create tiers of gear and levels of content. And adding new abilities is cake, because you just create an item with the effect on it and if people want to use it they will wear that type of equipment. I am positive I detailed this system in the days of Millie's reign over at FoH, and it really needs to be implemented in a modern game.
 

Column_sl

shitlord
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I watched those videos, and all I kept thinking was this looks like Disney Infinity. I really wish they would have done a more mature style to the game much like the first EQ.
 

Column_sl

shitlord
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rrr_img_74730.jpg
 

a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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EQ Nexts Creation Myth as explained by head lore developer Moorgard

The conflict between Veeshan and Kerafyrm is fundamental to our universe's cosmology. It is the story of Order versus Chaos, of existence pushing back against the Void.

When these old gods--the Primarchs--awoke, they traveled the universe. Veeshan sought to take what was there and make it perfect by subjecting it to Order. Kerafyrm sought to improve through change, as is the way of Chaos. He sought knowledge as his path to perfection.

Kerafyrm and his followers embarked upon a celestial journey that took them to the edge of the universe. He peered beyond and gazed upon the ruins of other realities where Order and Chaos had fallen out of balance, allowing Void to enter and consume them.

He returned to share his knowledge and found that, in his long absence, Veeshan had refashioned the mortal life she encountered in the mold of Order. The universe was out of balance. The universe was doomed.

Kerafyrm tried to warn Veeshan and her followers, but they believed he was a trickster attempting to deceive them. To restore balance, Kerafyrm began infusing Chaos into Veeshan's perfect structure. She fought back, triggering a cosmic conflict between the Primarchs, devastating the universe in the process.

In the final showdown, Veeshan channeled all the power of her followers and unleashed it upon Kerafyrm in a last effort to purge his influence. But the forces she commanded were so potent that the ensuing wave killed not only the Chaos God and the other Primarchs, but all mortal life in the universe. Only the Primarch of Order remained, all alone in the night.

Veeshan wandered this silent wasteland for untold ages, until at long last the spark of life began to return. And amidst this reawakening, she heard a sound almost at the edge of her consciousness. She followed it to the heart of the universe and realized the sound was laughter...laughter emanating from the long-dormant remains of Kerafyrm. The Chaos God was not dead, only slumbering. Veeshan realized that her ancient foe would one day awaken.

To contain him, she took hold of the fragments of broken worlds, piecing together a prison sealed with magic. She placed four warders to stand guard over the slumbering god, locked away deep under layers of earth. Veeshan believed her ancient foe was at long last contained.

But Chaos and Order were not the only primal influences in the universe. Nature awoke too, and the prison world fashioned by Veeshan began to manifest a potent world spirit that, even in its primordial state, radiated with a power greater than any other world in the cosmos. Veeshan sought to commune with this world spirit but found that she could not--its essence was fundamentally different from her own.

To bridge this gap, Veeshan seeded the world with her own perfect creations, the dragons. Her children were given two directives: assist the warders with safeguarding Kerafyrm's prison, and find a way to commune with the spirit of this new world. Her will made clear, Veeshan left Norrath to undertake her own celestial journey.

Life evolved as the world spirit matured. From a primordial age in which the dragons clashed with elemental titans to the rise of giants and eventually the mortal races, this world called Norrath was a place of growth and change. And thus the tapestry of Norrath's history began to unfold.

---

What does the average Norrathian know of these old truths? Nothing. Such secrets have long been buried, or have become the stuff of legend. The only evidence to be found is the existence of ancient artifacts, objects that predate even the Keldarain--such as spires that open gateways to realms beyond their own.

The dragons know. But Veeshan has been gone so long, and so much has happened in her absence, that some of her children have begun to question the best manner in which to fulfill her ancient edicts. One might wonder how creatures of perfect Order came to be divided so...

This universe was born of conflict between rival influences. And those conflicts echo through the pages of Norrath's history, forming the foundation of gameplay in EverQuest Next.

Also,
LORE -- EverQuest Next Lore in a Minute! - YouTube

LORE -- EverQuest Next Franchise Lore in a Minute! - YouTube

Edit: Also this pretty much confirms that end game "raid content" will be digging deep enough to stumble into Kerefyrms lair and fighting the 4 warders once again, Waking the sleeper and thus triggering some sort of CRAZY server wide rallying call that raiders and casuals alike can participate in.

Can't wait.
 

Lenas

Trump's Staff
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With the limited ability slots for EQN are there even going to be resource pools like mana? Or will everything be cast time and cooldown based, meaning there is no "burn through your mana bar" option to even consider?
All abilities use your "energy" resource, aka stamina.
 

Vitality

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EQ Nexts Creation Myth as explained by head lore developer Moorgard



Also,
LORE -- EverQuest Next Lore in a Minute! - YouTube

LORE -- EverQuest Next Franchise Lore in a Minute! - YouTube

Edit: Also this pretty much confirms that end game "raid content" will be digging deep enough to stumble into Kerefyrms lair and fighting the 4 warders once again, Waking the sleeper and thus triggering some sort of CRAZY server wide rallying call that raiders and casuals alike can participate in.

Can't wait.
Hopefully I can fight for the forces of Chaos. I'm skeptical, there's a lot of room for EQ:N guys to get this wrong.

How cool would it be for the server to be plunged in an era of chaos because they lost the war or whatever. Where another server is full of order and what not. I can get behind that.
 

a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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Hopefully I can fight for the forces of Chaos. I'm skeptical, there's a lot of room for EQ:N guys to get this wrong.

How cool would it be for the server to be plunged in an era of chaos because they lost the war or whatever. Where another server is full of order and what not. I can get behind that.
That's what I'm thinking. Someone "discovers" Sleepers Tomb deep underground. Raid guild comes and slays all 4 warders waking keryafyrm up. Instead of being some mindless NPC he becomes a sort of quest giver telling you about the balance between order and chaos. Starts a giant rallying cry between chaos and order factions. Players can pick either side and the winner will change the time line of that server permanently.

So 2 years down the line people can pick joining the order or chaos server because different items may drop and the zones would be different.

I could see this being the last "Story line" of the vanilla xpac, after all the cities and stuff have bee built.
 

Vitality

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Neckbearding here:

I'd allow SOE to do cross server conflicts if one becomes order and the other becomes chaos. Like a rift opens up and people from another server bleed through and you have to PVP them or whatever. But I don't want it being more than one server versus another. That way people can still make a name for themselves.

This is the concept that Rift should have been developed around.

Aion kind of did it like this and it was pretty fun.
 

Lenas

Trump's Staff
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How cool would it be for the server to be plunged in an era of chaos because they lost the war or whatever. Where another server is full of order and what not. I can get behind that.
Pretty sure that's exactly what SOE is going for, problem is no one believes them.
 

a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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Neckbearding here:

I'd allow SOE to do cross server conflicts if one becomes order and the other becomes chaos. Like a rift opens up and people from another server bleed through and you have to PVP them or whatever. But I don't want it being more than one server versus another. That way people can still make a name for themselves.

This is the concept that Rift should have been developed around.
I don't doubt multi-server travelling will be a thing, It's already in Landmark and built into the lore. Even if you have 20 servers good players will make a name for each other since most people will stick to a "home" server for the most part.

This way you can make servers wildly different with out cutting someone out of content.
 

Vitality

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Pretty sure that's exactly what SOE is going for, problem is no one believes them.
Of course not, SOE's been a pretty bad company in the past. They got Planetside right, but it took them like 6months + after release to iron that shit out.

They aren't going to put all their eggs into EQN or Landmark. Smeds not that kind of guy.

The problem with this is: The eq fan base is ultra-sensitive, so if they release an unfinished product like they did with Planetside 2 the game will ultimately bite the dust. Just like most of the planetside community completely abandoned planetside 2 because SOE spun it then dumped it.

I really hope they get this right. It sounds great on paper. I sincerely hope, for all the fans here, that SOE doesn't spin and dump this one.
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
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The problem with this is: The eq fan base is ultra-sensative, so if they release an unfinished product like they did with Planetside 2 the game will ultimately bite the dust.
I don't think SoE is all that worried about impressing the EQ "fan base" with EQN.
 

a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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I don't think SoE is all that worried about impressing the EQ "fan base" with EQN.
Agreed EQ fans who want "HD EQ" are a small minority and should be ignored. What is NOT a minority is the growing amount of MMO players who are getting tired of rehashed wow clones with face roll able content. This is shown not just with MMOS but gaming in general.

We are in a time now where WoW and Call of Duty make a ton of cash but a lot of players are actively looking for something else. We are in a critical time now for the "next big thing" and if Sony can pull EQN off like they say they will be a true powerplayer again.
 

Vitality

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I don't think SoE is all that worried about impressing the EQ "fan base" with EQN.
I feel you on this one, which is why I'm remaining at arms length with this, bad bad bad flashbacks of SWG CU and the Planetside to Planetside 2 transition.

SOE has a running reputation with making fan-base content-style transitions some of the most painful things experienced in gaming history.

If you could take one thing from what I say in this thread, don't expect SOE to deliver on this one, be pleasantly surprised instead if they manage to pull this off.

#jaded99er
 

Lenas

Trump's Staff
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The problem with this is: The eq fan base is ultra-sensative, so if they release an unfinished product like they did with Planetside 2 the game will ultimately bite the dust.
I think that's part of their strategy here with being so transparent. It's almost impossible for them to release an unfinished product when we've seen every step of the development. By the time the game hits OB, if you don't know what it's about, it's pretty much your own fault at this point. The open beta will essentially be a soft launch, and they'll use that 6 month period the same way they did with PS2, to finish tuning it up and make it 100%. Problem with PS2 was that they released it unfinished without the understanding that it was still being worked on. With an OB they'll have an excuse and can just say come back when the game is finished.

Edit - All this assuming they follow the same development path with EQN as they did with Landmark. Closed alpha -> closed beta -> open beta -> release.
 

a_skeleton_02

<Banned>
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I think that's part of their strategy here with being so transparent. It's almost impossible for them to release an unfinished product when we've seen every step of the development. By the time the game hits OB, if you don't know what it's about, it's pretty much your own fault at this point. The open beta will essentially be a soft launch, and they'll use that 6 month period the same way they did with PS2, to finish tuning it up and make it 100%. Problem with PS2 was that they released it unfinished without the understanding that it was still being worked on. With an OB they'll have an excuse and can just say come back when the game is finished.

Edit - All this assuming they follow the same development path with EQN as they did with Landmark. Closed alpha -> closed beta -> open beta -> release.
"Whereas with H1Z1, we were able to leverage a lot of our existing technology from PlanetSide 2 with the vehicles, Forgelight, the map, the fact that it's a shooter. So we weren't having to reinvent - and I'm not discounting H1Z1 by any means, but it's just apples and oranges, so I don't know if it's a great comparison.

"But we really are wanting to be just as open with EverQuest Next as we've been with H1Z1, we're just focused on different things right now. And H1Z1 will be an early access product, where Next probably will not."
Looks doubtful they will do the same $100 alpha access founder pack thing they did with Landmark focusing on internal testing and closed Betas instead.