EQ Never

and that's why MMOs suck, and not much will change that.

Create a game for the lowest common denominator, and that's exactly what you get

Kinaniff_sl said:

As insightful as that all sounds, the converse is equally true. What makes these games lousy is us. What makes them boring is us. What makes them not worth playing is us. The cynical, perverted, infantile, sociopathic, self serving, greedy, rude, ill tempered, attention starved, trolling, criminal, socially inept, lying, ignorant, immature, etc, us. That's who ruined chat rooms, and who keeps ruining mmos, who makes us all just want to quit these games and move on in our lives.

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That's why we have guilds. for sure it can take time if you have not been a part of a community and are just starting out. But finding the right guild is part of the game. There is not an MMO that has released that this community has not pre-made guilds for and many folks move from game to game with their guild. It's been years since I joined one I just do not have the juice anymore and if I play any game it will probably be some POS flash game that distracts me for a couple of hours. then I can quit it and not feel obligated. But if you have been playing MMO's for any length of time and have yet to find a good group to hang with it's not "us" it's you.

Quaid_sl said:

The popularity of the Souls franchise gives me hope for the future.

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Dark Souls Online: WoW Killer.


You heard it here first.

Premade guilds only mean you all chat while being bored in the latest solo-to-max game and eventually leave the game anyhow, just with people to say goodbye to.

EQ players weren't good at socializing, usually, or there looking for a social experience. It was required, and people, as they typically do, adapted and made it tolerable and at times wonderful. Like rabid dogs, low level players in EQ learned the only way they could progress is if they at least worked with others. You don't get that in most modern games, so by the time grouping or raiding might be an option, most people still seem to still be rabid dogs.

I still think a game focusing (almost requiring) group reliance could be a success. Not a blockbuster, and not necessarily AAA right away, but make money and be something worth playing for more than the first free month. Not sure why we're discussing it in this thread, though, as it surely won't be EQN!

Big W Powah!_sl said:

Dark Souls Online: WoW Killer.


You heard it here first.

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It would be so watered down it would kill the game. See: Elder Scrolls Online.

Personally I want to see a game where you can solo to max level with really random loot tables. But it is slow, Very very slow. But if you group you get bonus xp and loot more tailored to the group. If you group with more random folks you get more rewards too. Also have the game help with contacting people you have grouped with before and liked. (personalized rating system maybe)

Of course I also want random adventures when doing overworld travel. (Think scripted events, An assault on a nearby farm where your party can be teleported to you. And so forth)

I want lots of things. Bleh.

Srathor have you played Path of Exile?

I want territorial control, over a world. And have the control mean something.

Sounds like you need to be in the Crowfall thread, not EQN.

Srathor_sl said:

Personally I want to see a game where you can solo to max level with really random loot tables. But it is slow, Very very slow. But if you group you get bonus xp and loot more tailored to the group. If you group with more random folks you get more rewards too. Also have the game help with contacting people you have grouped with before and liked. (personalized rating system maybe)

Of course I also want random adventures when doing overworld travel. (Think scripted events, An assault on a nearby farm where your party can be teleported to you. And so forth)

I want lots of things. Bleh.

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I don't think I want any of those things. I guess I don't mind if a few classes can solo to max level, like EQ, but only in a system where you have to weigh the cons of doing it (like less loot or being seen as a fucking loner who is going to get a group killed).

I don't want bonus exp for grouping, per se, because then people group up for the bonus and AoE or zerg. Just make tougher mobs give more exp. People will form groups to kill that stuff, because that's also where the relative safety and better loot is. But if you and your buddy want to duo that same mob, you get more exp.

Loot more tailored to the group should be a passive result, which may be what you meant, but I meant it as an active system where the game knows you're in a group and puts in appropriate loot. The loot system should be set to certain mobs drop certain things, and some are harder to kill and get to, but reward more.

Basic risk vs. reward gets skewered because of over-design where the game has too many factors and formulas trying to engineer an ideal gaming experience.

Fuck personal rating systems that reward you for randomly grouping. People will then just "LFG only people we haven't grouped with to max rewards!!!" You can't over-design too many systems or it just causes players to be extra retarded.

So, you're trying to travel to some dungeon to kill mobs that are harder, thus will give more exp and better loot, with the friends you've made by good old fashioned remember people, and you're teleported into an instance to help some local farm in a scripted encounter that isn't a part of the open world? No thanks.

The thing I don't understand is so many games do all these sorts of things, or at least try really hard. They over-design the game, try to control and reward everything, try to provide a forced, engineer gaming experience where you're instantly the hero and the game is always begging you to do something FUN it's handing players on a silver platter.... yet so many gamers who claim they want this are on forums saying that's what the next good game will have to deliver. Games either can't deliver this, or it's not what you really want, otherwise you'd be playing all those games.

Give me a world I can engage with, and make it simple and not over-designed. I'll figure the rest out, because I want to play the game, not have the game play me.

EverQuest 3 had a couple of scrapped iterations that they felt were too close to 'the same MMO we've played for years'. The concept art still holds up, but they experimented with making Freeport out of voxels instead of geometry and kept going in that direction.

There's a video floating around that shows their first attempt at recreating the Freeport entrance using voxels and it's very crude (looks very Minecrafty to start).

I heard outside of those few screens and the animation reel, EQ3 was basically nothing and there was no game.

Makes sense because you can catch a couple of random ex devs that have posted old EQ3 character models and art referencing the different directions the game took (some were pretty close to the big voxel transition).

Still could have had any one of those iterations out like two years ago and who the fuck knows when EQN will actually launch.

gogojira_sl said:

I heard outside of those few screens and the animation reel, EQ3 was basically nothing and there was no game.

Makes sense because you can catch a couple of random ex devs that have posted old EQ3 character models and art referencing the different directions the game took (some were pretty close to the big voxel transition).

Still could have had any one of those iterations out like two years ago and who the fuck knowsIFEQN will actually launch.

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FTFY

2troo

It was always EQNext. Nobody internally ever called it EQ3 that I'm aware of. Rich Waters and I talked a bit back in 2010 about some ideas of where the game might go, but I stayed on EQ, and Rich went elsewhere. Shortly after that, a skeletal design team was created and theorycrafting started on iteration 1 for real.

Part of the error in thinking is that people don't want to play the same MMO they've played for years.

Kreugen_sl said:

Part of the error in thinking is that people don't want to play the same MMO they've played for years.

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Yes and no.

People, that have played WoW for years want to play WoW. But there are TONS of people who have left WoW 6.0 behind years ago because they didn't like what they turned the game into. Same can be said for EQ. Hell, the same can be said for SWG and FFXIV too. Believe it or not, there is a population that LIKED FFXIV 1.0. I actually liked the class system in its first iteration. For that matter, I never got back into EQ2 much after the first expansion launched. GU13 I believe, where they changed the classes drastically. I enjoyed being able to make a tank have scout level DPS with reverse procs as long as he's getting beat on with my defiler. I enjoyed the melee proc on my templar's shielding line that made me do respectable enough DPS to solo things in a decent time frame. It was self only, but fuck, it was fun. It was also entirely ineffective if I had to heal something, as I wouldn't be meleeing during the healing..The "melee healer" thing they added later was total shit in feeling comparisons.

So, while many people are happy playing WoW, EQ, etc..They're not going to jump ship from the game they've invested thousands of hours into for the same exact thing. The promise of playing something that harkens back to their heyday in their favorite game? They will jump ship for. Theres also a decent population that is looking for something fresh, albeit relatively small.


For me? I don't like WoW today much. I don't like EQ today much. But a game that took WoW vanilla's forumla, with a little better class balance, that allowed the emergent gameplay and viability of being utilitarian of EQ? Fuck yes, Imma suck the dick of the guy who delivers that. Nightly. For a year. And swallow. I'm fat too, so you know my cheeks and lips are soft. Plus I'm hungry, and that helps. Seriously, sloppy dick sucking. I'll even take it up the ass if I can be some acrobatic bard/monk hybrid in a robe.