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Discussion in 'MMORPG General Discussion' started by Convo, Dec 6, 2012.
No offense, but people who say this kind of thing rarely are able to do so.
Seconded. It takes quite a bit of effort and artistry to make a [good and compelling] world. And you can forget about originality. At this point, there's nothing new under the sun.
Let me rephrase: Post Velious Lore/storyline is crap. Almost anything that is not-crap would be better, in my opinion. I'm sure the story-guys who were in charge of creating lore for the crap past Velious worked really hard and spent a lot of time making their crap, but it doesn't make it not-crap. There are a few instances in post Velious lore that aren't crap; those are ok. But if they involve the moon or the discordians, they are crap.
I mean that in the nicest way possible. My statement that myself or anyone else could produce better is more of an indictment of that crap than it is stating that myself or others are superior writers. Simply that the lore was crap.
The EQN ebooks were really quite good.
These were the same people that thought giving gawker money post gamergate was a good idea.
Good lore certainly is a bonus, but how many people really are into it? How many skip quest text to level faster? And how many read the ingame books? Probably less than 0.1%? And nothing beats Warlords of Draenor for fucked up lore / reasons for an expansion
Eh, I'm a lore whore so I pay really close attention. It feels much less like a "world" and more like a "game" when you just randomly incorporate "Oh we found another continent randomly!" or "invaders from another dimension, sort of!" or "And then we went to the moon!" Those types of pre-quest text for expansions are goddamn retarded, especially in a game where you've already found 1-3 hidden continents leading up to that point. The "skipping quest text" thing is a deal with super quest-heavy games, such as WoW or Rift or similar. EQ (not including EQ2. It was a shitfest that tried it's best to be a WoW-style shitfest) was definitely heavier on the ingame lore being a part of stuff. It's why factions existed, for the most part. And why your initial choice of deity mattered (to a degree) and lead to them doing the cultural crafting stuff. Those are good things.
Point being, that the lore took a weird fan-fictiony progression after Velious and never quite recovered. It's also a symptom of a game that has simply persisted past its relevance.
The best lore we got was the sand.
It's crazy how this IP was just ran into the ground.
FYI, old email from Ye Ole Ponytail:
I?ve heard a few rumblings through the grapevine over the last couple of days. Those rumblings basically boil down into two camps:
? If Landmark?s numbers are low, why are we still working on this game?
? If H1Z1?s numbers are huge, why are we not all working on that game?
Let?s start with the second question. We are not all working on H1Z1 because that team has the resources they need to go forward with the plans they desire to pursue. We (meaning most of the dev teams in the company) have already offered to help in any way possible. Such changes have already been made. Also, despite its wonderful numbers, there are no guarantees that it will stand up over time. (The long-term gameplay is currently weak, and I don?t personally know how fast that team can shore up those aspects. So longevity is not certain.)
So the company has dedicated the resources it wants to dedicate to H1Z1 at this time *and* we?re don?t know how good the legs are on the game (but obviously hope for the best!). So that?s the honest reason for why we?re not shifting more folks over there.
Now the other question: Why are we still working on Landmark?
The answers are:
? This company?s backbone is EverQuest. It?s our identity and our soul. Thus, we?re *going* to make EverQuest Next. This company is absolutely dedicated to making that vision come to life. Landmark is the path to that game.
? Landmark is a secret weapon. While we work on EQN this year, Landmark will continue to chug along beside us, allowing our players to help us create the new Norrath. We don?t need much more to tie it up with a bow and allow it to soldier on in parallel. We?re working on the plan for Open Beta and it?s a very short-term plan (like March if we can swing it).
? Landmark has the potential to be a sleeper hit. Here?s how: As we talk about EQN this year, players are going to start gathering around and talking about it (forums, social, etc.). They?re going to want to PLAY EQN?but they can?t. However, there will be a lot of EQN stuff going on inside Landmark. Thus, Landmark userbase may slowly increase over time, allowing its monetization elements to finally kick into gear. We don?t know, but at this time, because a) it?s almost done for Open Beta; b) it helps EQN get created, and c) it might earn more money later when it comes into its own with the gamemastering tools?we?re continuing to support it.
? It?s novel. It?s unique. And it?s generated $10M for us to defray EQN?s dev costs. This is HUGE and SUCCESSFUL. We have no intention of turning the lights out on this game.
But most importantly, this company needs as many successful games as it can get. It?s been a long time since we?ve had a hit at product launch and H1Z1 is the closest we?ve come to getting the critical mass on Day One that is required for a game to get really big.
But one hit, especially when we?re unsure whether it has legs or not, is not a stable business. So DCUO continues to grow, Planetside 2 goes to PS4, H1Z1 will expand as rapidly as it can?and EQN/Landmark will continue to be developed and are critical to this company?s future.
I hope this helps answer any questions you might have. If you have other concerns, or are curious about stuff, please just stop by my office and let?s talk about it.
I actually had a frank discussion with the marketing team about that stupid bullshit (not the Prince impersonator) and turned out that they really wanted to do a lot of stuff but that Smed was blocking every activity. Not going to go into too much detail but after speaking with the marketing team it became clear that they were not the problem and that he had to go.
Is that real? How did a company email get public?
And also wow at Landmark making $10M.
A former employee. I don't believe EQL made 10 million
Even if it did that is absolutely nothing on the cost of developing that and EQN.
I'd be curious to know how many of those $100 early access packs they actually sold for Landmark.
I will fully admit, I was duped and bought into it. Played for a few days and decided world building wasn't my thing. Wish I had that money back.
The only positive I will say is that it was a life lesson. I will NEVER pay to Alpha or Beta anything ever again! Companies can fund their own development.
haha remember Teekey?? ?!?!@ that whole page.. So much stupid in all that..
EQ Next - Page 1087
I bought the sucker pack.
It had been a sucker pack forever. Especially for those people that paid for the initial release of it only for Steam to discount it by half.
Landmark was a disaster. It should have remained a toolset for building EQN and nothing more. I can clearly remember Dave saying things like "The creation tools will be simple to use and the most powerful ever seen", as if somehow those 2 things can co-exist. Sorry, but no. Easy to use should have been the focus, and that sadly never happened. They always had a ridiculous learning curve to do anything beyond basic shit. Locking all those special tools behind progression was also a REALLY dumb idea. Yep.. let's PREVENT players from doing cool stuff until they've made 100 dumb swords, and harvested 100 plants. If I had my way, everything would have just been open to use.. Go nuts creation mode.
The majority of the really crazy shit the voxel tools could do was by pure accident with the system trying to comprehend what the 'player' really wanted to do. We (other team devs) repeatedly told them they needed to make things easier to use to increase critical mass involved, and were repeatedly told to mind our own business, you're stupid, and on and on. Micro-Voxels, Zero-Voxels, whatever the fuck you wanted to call them was the engine trying to resolve something unintended, and coming out with something interesting and useful. It wasn't planned in any way, shape, or form.
Let's be clear too.. Landmark was Dave's obsession, and there simply was no way to convince him otherwise about it being a game. I believe this ultimately killed EQN.
Elidroth, just out of curiosity how much input does CN provide (or provided while you were there) on DBG's direction? I see a lot of people trying to blame CN for this fiasco on other boards, but it seems to me that they wouldn't have that much of an active hand on the day to day stuff.