EQ Never

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,040
19,501
wrong. just because the majority of people who may post here have gotten older and don't have the same amount of free time, doesn't mean that all gamers everywhere are older and don't have free time. newsflash: most games are made for KIDS, and there are hundreds of millions of them out there with plenty of time on their hands, just like at one time we were all kids with endless hours to spare. just because our demographic has gotten older, doesn't mean there isn't a market for an EQ type game anymore. this "people don't have time anymore" is just a cheap copout for developers so they can make shitty games with carbon copy mcdungeons in them that take no originality or ingenuity whatsoever.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Most MMOs are not made for kids. They aren't made for hardcore players with 12hrs+ a day to spend on a game. They are made primarily for 18-34 year olds with disposable income. That is where the money comes from.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
hurray for capitalism.
Yup, this cannot be really fixed, and why people like Brad, for his ills, should be celebrated over the fucksticks at the modern-day Blizzard.

Making EQ, they had no fucking clue what would be financially successful. That is to say in precise language, they didn't dictate design through marketing heads and design according to marketing data. Some things they did were genius, some were horribly screwed up, some were so horribly screwed up that it turned out to be a positive. They didn'tknowwhat would sell a million copies. And to be honest, I don't know if they cared. They made what they wanted to make and play themselves. I doubt any modern developer at Blizzard would want to play the WoW they're making now.
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
You have no idea what you're talking about. Most MMOs are not made for kids. They aren't made for hardcore players with 12hrs+ a day to spend on a game. They are made primarily for 18-34 year olds with disposable income. That is where the money comes from.
are you fucking retarded? most hardcore gamers are teenagers to people in their early to mid 20's. that is the main demographic for all games, not just MMO's. and those people have plenty of money (even if it's their parents) and plenty of free time. most of the hardcore players who were there when the MMO genre began fit into this demographic. just because we are now all older, doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who are in that same age group now. if you truly are a dev, and you don't realize this, then no wonder the MMO genre is in the shape it's in now.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
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113,035
No Drop is a method to limit an item's rarity. You can limit it in various manners. But, if the item is "valuable", then you must limit its distribution in some manner. Or you end up with the "everyone has it" syndrome, and it's no longer valued.

If your item drop from a dungeon boss that respawns every time you enter a dungeon, and that has as many copies as there are group seeking it, then, by nature, it ends up common as crap. And thus, it IS crap. Having valuable items that weren't nodrop in EQ worked because the items were limited by a respawn rate/chance with only one chance per 26mn/52mn per server. Having tradeable items in a game with instances makes them common and valueless however. It's one or the other.
It's not one or the other--you could simply have it be an extremely low drop chance. Imagine if in a particular tier 1 raid, you had 2 versions. Instance and Community (You pick at the start of the dungeon). In the instance version, the bosses all dropped, lets say, "Tier .5 loot" (So Tier 2 would drop Tier 1.5 ect). It's decent, it's an upgrade--but it's well below tier 1. However, each boss has a low chance, say 10%, to drop tier 1--rare enough that you will typically see ONE or two rares, per raid reset (Maybe even have it be a rolling chance, so each boss you kill that doesn't drop one, increases the next boss by 10%). However, because none of these "tier 1" pieces are bound, if you get duplicates, of say, cleric gloves--you can go ahead and try totradethem for warrior ones. (Increasing interaction with other guilds or groups)

ALSO, the community version of this raid, would ALWAYS drop tier 1 loot--giving a distinct advantage to doing the community version of the raid--the down side is, it can be camped, and spawns won't always be up.

Now, eventually, yes the market would saturate with these items--even if their drop rate was low. But that's okay--the developer should not be interested in keeping them rareforever, just rare until 2 more tiers of content comes out. Then you simply allow that old "Tier 1" to become mudflated, because you WANT it to be "somewhat" common by the time enough new content is out, because you want it to be easier for new players to gear up with a minimum standard suit. And instead of having them do tokens, and shit, for their suit, you can let them make money in the economy and buy it from other players (Of course this would take a tiered economy to control farmers and gold explosions)

This is the real magic behind very rare, sparse, equipment. This kind of rarity couldn't work in WoW BECAUSE of no-drop. But in a game that didn't have no-drop, it could. No-drop was one answer to farmers...It might not have been the best one, or maybe it was...I don't know, the point is there are MORE answers out there, they just haven't been tried but it's entirely possible.

Also Edit : D3 "kind" of tried to use this system, but they botched it with fully random affixes, and no lock outs--you'd need to have a high enough drop rate so people CAN see the items they want at least once a full play session (Even if they might not get it because they are in a group) BUT you limit those play sessions, or access, in the way of raid lock outs , to keep control over how many items go out. D3 kind of just let you grind, and they had to adjust the "perfect" drop so low, people often didn't see a good drop for weeks---that's too frustrating. There is a balance that can be struck in MMO's because of how drops work, that can't in the Diablo Genre. (For dungeons you couldn't do lock outs, because you don't want to limit your player pool in groups--so you make instanced versions simply have a very very low chance to drop things, but make them the keystone of your tiered economy, where as in that's where you get money but it requires a full group)
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
I don't play EQ2, but I know they have both instanced and uninstanced dungeons. Does anyone know what the population is like in the uninstanced dungeons?
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
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I don't play EQ2, but I know they have both instanced and uninstanced dungeons. Does anyone know what the population is like in the uninstanced dungeons?
I've heard it's not very good, but from what I know--and I might be wrong--they don't really design around making their community content more attractive than instanced content in terms of rewards. Plopping non-instanced content into a gamewithoutany thought on how to populate it will be a disaster. All systems need to be worked in carefully (It's one thing WoW is decent at--when they put a system in, they make sure it's supported by almost all other systems)
 

sakkath

Trakanon Raider
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I don't play EQ2, but I know they have both instanced and uninstanced dungeons. Does anyone know what the population is like in the uninstanced dungeons?
Depends on the xpac. The open dungeons in Velious and Skyshrine were moderately popular because they dropped gear way higher in quality than similar difficulty instances and were also excellent XP. The open dungeon for the current xpac is basically unused because the bosses are as hard as the hardest of the instances and it drops gear of the same quality as the easiest instances.

Big open dungeons have been a feature of most EQ2 xpacs and most of them have been fairly popular amongst certain kinds of players.
 

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
With the group EXP changes they made a little while back in EQ2, contested Skyshrine became a great place to grind EXP. Like sakkath hinted at, they've had troubles with making the contested dungeons actually worth doing in terms of challenge versus reward.
 

Xeldar

Silver Squire
1,546
133
You have no idea what you're talking about. Most MMOs are not made for kids. They aren't made for hardcore players with 12hrs+ a day to spend on a game. They are made primarily for 18-34 year olds with disposable income. That is where the money comes from.
Amazing, fleshlight and Rockhard Weekend are made for the same demographic.
 

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
12,847
19,837
I don't play EQ2, but I know they have both instanced and uninstanced dungeons. Does anyone know what the population is like in the uninstanced dungeons?
There were people crawling around here and there in Nektropos Castle, Runny Eye and the other dungeons on EQ2 Nagafen server. Granted I played a few years back, it was the pvp server and they are the lowbie dungeons.
 
I don't play EQ2, but I know they have both instanced and uninstanced dungeons. Does anyone know what the population is like in the uninstanced dungeons?
A lot of the contested dungeons go unused until a double experience weekend hits - then you will see places like Sebilis camped by tons of groups trying to grind out experience and AA's on
their various Alt-armies. I rarely go into contested dungeons because they aren't (imho) worth the aggravation of hoping that there is a named up that you want before someone else gets
to it. Heck - it might not even be up at all and you just wasted time grinding to it only to have nothing to show for it - where uncontested instances always have named up.
smile.png
 

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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Epic quests and later a way to preserve your effort in doing them did happen in EQ 2. I never played it that long because most everything was no drop in PvP and I lost interest, but it appeared they held true to their class defining quest roots. These are good design in an MMO regardless of what Blizzard fan boy might come at me.
 

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,040
19,501
are you fucking retarded? most hardcore gamers are teenagers to people in their early to mid 20's. that is the main demographic for all games, not just MMO's. and those people have plenty of money (even if it's their parents) and plenty of free time. most of the hardcore players who were there when the MMO genre began fit into this demographic. just because we are now all older, doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who are in that same age group now. if you truly are a dev, and you don't realize this, then no wonder the MMO genre is in the shape it's in now.
Wow you're dumb. First, early to mid 20s are not kids and fall into the 18-34 demographic that I said. Second, I never said it was the hardcore demographic, nor do I give a shit about who's the most hardcore, so why are you even bringing that up? A hardcore players $15 a month is no better than a casual player.

Most things are marketed to that age group for good reason. They spend the most money, on average, for things like this. Anybody with any knowledge of marketing knows this
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,557
7,864
why are these homos all touching each other and grinning like they have a pinky in their bums?