EQ Never
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BilboFaggins
N00b
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I hate no drop. I remember when that shit was first introduced. The thing that kept coming to my mind was, "who the fuck poored super glue all over my shit?!"
Excidium
Trakanon Raider
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Rocket Jumping, Bunny hopping, wall hugging were all exploits in Quake that were left because they inadvertently created more game play mechanics that increased the skill ceiling of the game. Skiing in Tribes 1 was not intended, but its now the stable move of the Tribes francise.
Is this game even in alpha yet? PM would be appreciated as I don't really follow this game much after how many years since I've been anticipating it.
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,978
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If you go by the actual meaning of alpha and beta, which hardly anyone actually understands these days, probably no. They're still pre-alpha.
Burren
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,073
- 5,368
Agreed. Having essentially every item droppable (with exceptions from the planes, etc.) kept the economy going and in the end, the game as well.
- Have 95% of items in the game drop/tradable.
- NO auction house.
- Little to no instanced dungeons/encounters.
- NO hand-holding for the mouth breathing majority. Fuck them; I want a game for gamers.
In my opinion, the reason that soulbound items became popular was to reduce the effects of RMT. I really dislike games that bind items, but all the games that do not bind items need to do more to ban gold buyers. I am no lawyer though, so I do not know if this is possible.
Royal
Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
- 15,077
- 10,641
So keeping everything unbound because it creates economic activity is good but auction houses, which create far more economic participation than player-to-player haggling, are bad?
My biggest concern so far is that Scott said this game has been scrapped once or twice now and rebuilt up. Have they learned nothing over the past decade of failed MMO after failed MMO? There are literally 10+ MMOs that have completely flopped that they could have learned from on what to do, and what not to do. You dont have to reinvent the wheel everytime you start something. Learn what worked and what didnt work from various other MMOs over the past decade, incorporate the good, leave out the negative and youll set yourself up for success.
You're right, these exploits/emergent tools should have been embraced and incorporated into class identity in the franchise as a whole. Druids and Wizards should have been quad kiting in EQ2, monks should have been FD pulling etc etc. Of course some semblance of thought needs to be put into what's kept and what's discarded, and it is fair to argue over any of these (bard swarming for instance is negative emerging behavior imo), but a general position of enjoying the emerging creativity of your player base seems essential to making these games into worlds.
Pancreas
Vyemm Raider
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You can make all items transferable between players and not have a huge RMT crisis, if every item is easy to obtain and adds little to the character. This of course makes for some pretty bland itemization.
I would like to see an item system something like this:
I would like to see an item system something like this:
Building off of the skill system I outlined earlier.
ITEM ATTRIBUTES
First off, items contain no power modifiers such as +str or +dmg ect. An item is given a type, (sword, axe, katana, chain mail, helm) and a material (bronze, iron, steel, mithril). The item type determines what skills will influence the effectiveness of the item, what active abilities can now be performed with that item equipped, and a base level of physical attributes for the item (weight, durability, damage reduction/ absorption,). The material determines a modifier to the base physical attributes of the item as well as some special modifiers based on the material.
-special weapon modifiers-
Edged weapons have an additional qualifier describing the edge of the weapon. (Cracked, Chipped , Dull, Sharp, Razor, Jagged, Serrated, Saw Toothed ect.) The edge modifier adds something to each hit. Damaged modifiers which can be found on weapons with a lot of durability loss will reduce damage, crit chance ect.
Sharpness modifiers will increase crit chance.
Serrated, Jagged Barbed, will have a chance to cause bleeding with each hit.
An edge can be repaired from dull to sharp with sharpening tools. Damaged weapons will need a blacksmith.
Piercing weapons will have a hardness modifier that increases armor penetration/negation
Blunt weapons will have a crushing modifier that increases the effect of each hit. (Cripples, stuns, stamina drains ect.)
ARMOR
Armor will have damage absorption, damage deflection, critical hit reduction, weight, flexibility.
Absorption reduces incoming damage by a fixed amount, but reduces the armor durability by a moderate amount each time it does.
Deflection increases the chance of a glancing blow. Deflected attacks reduce durability by a small amount each time.
Crit hit reduction does exactly what it says. The chance a person will be critically relies heavily on the armor they are wearing. A naked player has a 100% chance to get crit. Every piece of armor they put on will reduce this chance. Even light armor would have decent crit reduction. A player could have a negative chance to be crit capped at -20%.
A characters agility determines their maximum potential moving speed. A character's strength determines the maximum equipped weight (armor + weapon + inventory) they can have before incurring a speed penalty.
Flexibility is a modifier that reduces a players speed penalty, if they should have one. This is typically found on light armor, rarely on medium armor and only on exceptional sets of heavy armor. It is primarily influence by the armor's material.
DAMAGE
As for calculating weapon damage it would go something like this. A character's agility would determine a speed modifier to their attacks. A character's strength determines the maximum equipped weight they can wield without a speed penalty.
All damage is done through active attacks, no auto attacks. Each attack has a different calculation for damage, however the weapon's weight is essentially it's base damage. Heavier weapons will do more damage. The speed at which an attack was performed also adds to the damage.
The active attacks available are determined by what abilities the character has learned and what weapon type they are using. Every weapon would have attacks that chain together reducing the brief moment of recovery the character has at the end of an attack. A character's dexterity will determine the recovery time between attacks and heavily influence hit rates. Generally the larger the damage modifier on an attack the longer the recovery time.
Strength Agility and Dexterity all have a shared pool of points with a point cap. Each stat goes from 1-100 and the point pool caps at 200.
So a naked character with max str, and agil wielding the heaviest weapon available and performing a large damage attack will do the most damage in a single hit. However the recovery time will be very substantial and due to their lack of armor will almost ensure their death if they miss.
ITEM ACQUISITION AND LOSS
Items would remain on a player's corpse when they died. They would be lootable by anyone including npc's.
Sounds harsh, and it is, however a player has a few tools to make this not as bad as it sounds. First, players all start off with a single equipped slot they can lock that will not be lost upon death. As they increase in rank and title, they will gain more lockable slots till about 1/2 of all slots will be locked.
Second, each title and rank confers access to some sort of quartermaster type npc. This npc will provide a predetermined selection of replacement gear and tools, based on rank, for a minimal fee.
Quartermaster items can not be repaired, they are turned into the quartermaster and fresh items are supplied at no charge.
Players have to pay a much higher price to replace quartermaster items they gave away or sold the item, and will incur a negative reputation hit with their faction.
Quartermaster items will not be purchased by npc merchants.
So what does this mean? Players will have access to a "default" gear set depending on their title (class) and rank. If they wish to equip advanced or even magic level gear, they better lock that equipment slot or risk losing it. This will present a player with a choice to determine which powerful items they wish to bring with them.
If they die, all of their default gear is easily replaced. Anyone who loots this gear will be able to use it until it breaks, it's effectiveness will go down sharply before that however. Items with less than near maximum durability will have negative damage modifiers.
-flexible death penalty-
Players will not wish to die to provide their friends with gear as each death reduces a single stat by a %. Stats can be increased through training and combat but are slow to increase and each death can set a player back from advancing. (think exp loss) This % increases as a player gains rank and title, the highest ranks will lose more than the lower ranks. A high rank player also loses some reputation with their group upon death.
A player can pay a substantial fee to recover some of the lost stat through the use of a crafted consumable.
Reputation loss can not be recovered except through victory in battle/ questing/ adventuring/ getting revenge on the entity that killed you before your next death/ assassinating a rival leader ect.
ARTIFACTS
Artifact weapons would be limited to one of each per server, they would be indestructible, they would not be permitted to be equipped in a locked slot. They would look pretty damn cool and would be very powerful.
The game I have envisioned would have lots of contextual pvp. As a player increases their rank and title they would eventually become flagged as a target by opposing groups and factions. Some groups would be fairly neutral such as trade guilds and such, but almost every powerful house/guild/ political faction/ militia or mercenary squad would have their own list of enemies. Opposing groups meeting each other would almost guarantee some sort of aggression.
Artifacts would automatically flag the user as a potential target to anyone who is not a member of their group/guild/faction or an ally of said group. Attacking anyone automatically places you in hostile status with the targets faction. So lot's of people could attack you, but they would become flagged to anyone you were allied with.
Also Artifacts never log out. When they are not being used, they go back to their "home". This is a bind spot for the item pretty much and can be determined by the player who currently has authorization over the item. This can be the person who found it, or in the case of a guild or other player organization it can be the leader of that group. So the person wielding the weapon might only be doing so on behalf of their group and not actually own it.
Guilds and factions could lay claim to more than just artifacts. Any item could be transferred to the guild armorer/quartermaster, who would then have control over who it was issued to. So, owning a guild hall or vault to keep items would be required, and these locations could be attacked and looted by opposing groups.
I got a bunch more ideas, especially in regards to crafting, but this is getting a little ridiculous in length right now
ITEM ATTRIBUTES
First off, items contain no power modifiers such as +str or +dmg ect. An item is given a type, (sword, axe, katana, chain mail, helm) and a material (bronze, iron, steel, mithril). The item type determines what skills will influence the effectiveness of the item, what active abilities can now be performed with that item equipped, and a base level of physical attributes for the item (weight, durability, damage reduction/ absorption,). The material determines a modifier to the base physical attributes of the item as well as some special modifiers based on the material.
-special weapon modifiers-
Edged weapons have an additional qualifier describing the edge of the weapon. (Cracked, Chipped , Dull, Sharp, Razor, Jagged, Serrated, Saw Toothed ect.) The edge modifier adds something to each hit. Damaged modifiers which can be found on weapons with a lot of durability loss will reduce damage, crit chance ect.
Sharpness modifiers will increase crit chance.
Serrated, Jagged Barbed, will have a chance to cause bleeding with each hit.
An edge can be repaired from dull to sharp with sharpening tools. Damaged weapons will need a blacksmith.
Piercing weapons will have a hardness modifier that increases armor penetration/negation
Blunt weapons will have a crushing modifier that increases the effect of each hit. (Cripples, stuns, stamina drains ect.)
ARMOR
Armor will have damage absorption, damage deflection, critical hit reduction, weight, flexibility.
Absorption reduces incoming damage by a fixed amount, but reduces the armor durability by a moderate amount each time it does.
Deflection increases the chance of a glancing blow. Deflected attacks reduce durability by a small amount each time.
Crit hit reduction does exactly what it says. The chance a person will be critically relies heavily on the armor they are wearing. A naked player has a 100% chance to get crit. Every piece of armor they put on will reduce this chance. Even light armor would have decent crit reduction. A player could have a negative chance to be crit capped at -20%.
A characters agility determines their maximum potential moving speed. A character's strength determines the maximum equipped weight (armor + weapon + inventory) they can have before incurring a speed penalty.
Flexibility is a modifier that reduces a players speed penalty, if they should have one. This is typically found on light armor, rarely on medium armor and only on exceptional sets of heavy armor. It is primarily influence by the armor's material.
DAMAGE
As for calculating weapon damage it would go something like this. A character's agility would determine a speed modifier to their attacks. A character's strength determines the maximum equipped weight they can wield without a speed penalty.
All damage is done through active attacks, no auto attacks. Each attack has a different calculation for damage, however the weapon's weight is essentially it's base damage. Heavier weapons will do more damage. The speed at which an attack was performed also adds to the damage.
The active attacks available are determined by what abilities the character has learned and what weapon type they are using. Every weapon would have attacks that chain together reducing the brief moment of recovery the character has at the end of an attack. A character's dexterity will determine the recovery time between attacks and heavily influence hit rates. Generally the larger the damage modifier on an attack the longer the recovery time.
Strength Agility and Dexterity all have a shared pool of points with a point cap. Each stat goes from 1-100 and the point pool caps at 200.
So a naked character with max str, and agil wielding the heaviest weapon available and performing a large damage attack will do the most damage in a single hit. However the recovery time will be very substantial and due to their lack of armor will almost ensure their death if they miss.
ITEM ACQUISITION AND LOSS
Items would remain on a player's corpse when they died. They would be lootable by anyone including npc's.
Sounds harsh, and it is, however a player has a few tools to make this not as bad as it sounds. First, players all start off with a single equipped slot they can lock that will not be lost upon death. As they increase in rank and title, they will gain more lockable slots till about 1/2 of all slots will be locked.
Second, each title and rank confers access to some sort of quartermaster type npc. This npc will provide a predetermined selection of replacement gear and tools, based on rank, for a minimal fee.
Quartermaster items can not be repaired, they are turned into the quartermaster and fresh items are supplied at no charge.
Players have to pay a much higher price to replace quartermaster items they gave away or sold the item, and will incur a negative reputation hit with their faction.
Quartermaster items will not be purchased by npc merchants.
So what does this mean? Players will have access to a "default" gear set depending on their title (class) and rank. If they wish to equip advanced or even magic level gear, they better lock that equipment slot or risk losing it. This will present a player with a choice to determine which powerful items they wish to bring with them.
If they die, all of their default gear is easily replaced. Anyone who loots this gear will be able to use it until it breaks, it's effectiveness will go down sharply before that however. Items with less than near maximum durability will have negative damage modifiers.
-flexible death penalty-
Players will not wish to die to provide their friends with gear as each death reduces a single stat by a %. Stats can be increased through training and combat but are slow to increase and each death can set a player back from advancing. (think exp loss) This % increases as a player gains rank and title, the highest ranks will lose more than the lower ranks. A high rank player also loses some reputation with their group upon death.
A player can pay a substantial fee to recover some of the lost stat through the use of a crafted consumable.
Reputation loss can not be recovered except through victory in battle/ questing/ adventuring/ getting revenge on the entity that killed you before your next death/ assassinating a rival leader ect.
ARTIFACTS
Artifact weapons would be limited to one of each per server, they would be indestructible, they would not be permitted to be equipped in a locked slot. They would look pretty damn cool and would be very powerful.
The game I have envisioned would have lots of contextual pvp. As a player increases their rank and title they would eventually become flagged as a target by opposing groups and factions. Some groups would be fairly neutral such as trade guilds and such, but almost every powerful house/guild/ political faction/ militia or mercenary squad would have their own list of enemies. Opposing groups meeting each other would almost guarantee some sort of aggression.
Artifacts would automatically flag the user as a potential target to anyone who is not a member of their group/guild/faction or an ally of said group. Attacking anyone automatically places you in hostile status with the targets faction. So lot's of people could attack you, but they would become flagged to anyone you were allied with.
Also Artifacts never log out. When they are not being used, they go back to their "home". This is a bind spot for the item pretty much and can be determined by the player who currently has authorization over the item. This can be the person who found it, or in the case of a guild or other player organization it can be the leader of that group. So the person wielding the weapon might only be doing so on behalf of their group and not actually own it.
Guilds and factions could lay claim to more than just artifacts. Any item could be transferred to the guild armorer/quartermaster, who would then have control over who it was issued to. So, owning a guild hall or vault to keep items would be required, and these locations could be attacked and looted by opposing groups.
I got a bunch more ideas, especially in regards to crafting, but this is getting a little ridiculous in length right now
You basically don't want any sort of magic armor / weapons. I could get behind that concept if it was a steampunk fantasy game. I doubt the neckbeards of EQ would like the idea of "no magic omgz!!"
Limiting the usefulness of magic can enhance the difficulty of a game if done correctly.
Seems pretty clear to me. When RMT is involved, it effects everyones gameplay, not just those that choose to partake in it.
Take Diablo 3 for example, the actions of 1 effect many. One guy bots over 50 accounts and floods the economy, inflating gold prices overnight. This leads to reduced gold drops. Then you have bots and scripts that run certain patterns and bosses, now those are nerfed to where they arent worthwhile. The one thing that I did learn in my time with FoH guilds was that you exploit early, exploit hard, and exploit often.
FF11 was another example, if you wanted to kill many of the NMS for a rare drop, you pretty much had to run a script with a provoke bot to get the claim. Every place worth camping had automated toons at their spawn locations 24/7.
Only the nieve think that RMT doesnt effect them, it effects everyone that plays the game.
Each MMO with a worthwhile economy is like that. The only way to play on an even playing field is to join in on the RMT madness and run your own bots and scripts.
Pancreas
Vyemm Raider
- 1,125
- 3,818
Well you could definitely still have magic items, except they wont simply be another color and have more stats. The magic items in that system would have unique properties or abilities attached to them that might make them behave very differently than a normal item. Examples:
-A pair of boots that make the player's footsteps become silent.
-A pair of gloves that causes a stun if used in a hand to hand attack.
-A chainmail shirt that weighs next to nothing but confers solid defense stats.
-A bow that shoots arrows that binds the players sight to it allowing them to look around from a different vantage point.
-A two handed hammer that causes tremors with every strike around the wielder if they are barefoot and standing on bare ground.
-A cloak that causes the player to float down to the ground just before they take fatal fall damage.
-A spyglass that switches to first person view, but can see hidden traps or stealthy characters.
-A throwing dagger that does no damage, never truly leaves the players hand, but disguises the player to look exactly like the target it hit for a short period of time.
-A necklace that when activated, will cause the user to appear 4 feet to the left right or behind where they are actually standing for a period of time. This illusion would dispel when struck.
-An orb covered in thorns and held in the hand that causes the user to bleed profusely. But it absorbs all magic damage. Once the orb fills up, it will lash out at the nearest applicable target and do a % of the damage it absorbed. If it can't find a target, it kills the user.
-A mace that when used with a certain emote, raising it over the users head, will cause a flash of light that blinds undead and evil creatures; provided the user is allied with the proper faction.
-A mirror that is equipped like a shield that will cause projectiles to reflect off without losing any speed, but will shatter if used to deflect a normal melee hit.
-A pair of gloves that causes a stun if used in a hand to hand attack.
-A chainmail shirt that weighs next to nothing but confers solid defense stats.
-A bow that shoots arrows that binds the players sight to it allowing them to look around from a different vantage point.
-A two handed hammer that causes tremors with every strike around the wielder if they are barefoot and standing on bare ground.
-A cloak that causes the player to float down to the ground just before they take fatal fall damage.
-A spyglass that switches to first person view, but can see hidden traps or stealthy characters.
-A throwing dagger that does no damage, never truly leaves the players hand, but disguises the player to look exactly like the target it hit for a short period of time.
-A necklace that when activated, will cause the user to appear 4 feet to the left right or behind where they are actually standing for a period of time. This illusion would dispel when struck.
-An orb covered in thorns and held in the hand that causes the user to bleed profusely. But it absorbs all magic damage. Once the orb fills up, it will lash out at the nearest applicable target and do a % of the damage it absorbed. If it can't find a target, it kills the user.
-A mace that when used with a certain emote, raising it over the users head, will cause a flash of light that blinds undead and evil creatures; provided the user is allied with the proper faction.
-A mirror that is equipped like a shield that will cause projectiles to reflect off without losing any speed, but will shatter if used to deflect a normal melee hit.
Stuff like that. Properties usually reserved for unique or legendary items in other games would be the magical properties here. It would make them very sought after, and they should be equally difficult to acquire. So pretty much no one is running around in full magical gear, but everyone would probably have at least one or two tricks up their sleeve at the end game. And because of the way items are handled on death no one should WANT to run around in full magical gear.
So yeah make magic items rare but powerful with interesting properties. Make Artifacts require a lot of effort to remain in possession of. Keep tying everything back to the groups and factions the players choose to align themselves with. Create good areas of contention between the players.
Zaide
TLP Idealist
- 3,747
- 4,406
I've never played an mmo where it seemed as severe as what you mention.
When you say bot you mean a character being run entirely by a script though right? If that's the case it seems like botting is the major problem.
I could see that I suppose. iirc when I played D&D years ago our GM had this rule about not allowing you to wear more than 2 magic rings and one regular piece of magic armor because of a conflict of magic or something like that. I mean otherwise you'd be running around with 10 magic rings and all sorts of craziness.
Maybe not have so much restriction on magic items, but have wearing too much magic armor cause bad things to happen. That way it wouldn't be a hard limit but a risk players can choose to take.
LachiusTZ
Rogue Deathwalker Box
- 14,472
- 27,162
In any game where nothing is soulbound and items make a character a lot stronger you need to absolutely flood the market with good items to prevent hyper inflation. Imagine a game where you have 100 players but only 20 of the best weapon in the game. Without RMT, the players compete against eachother to obtain the weapons. A few will be dropped or crafted, but 18 of those weapons will be bought for gold, so whoever has the most gold gets the weapon. Now add RMT...
The price of the weapons increases because people have more gold to spend on it. The guys who did not RMT cannot possible afford to buy the weapon, so those guys RMT even more. Everyone starts to RMT more and more because that is the only way to get the good weapons. But who is selling all of this gold? That's where the bots come in. The gold sellers need to increase production, so they add more and more bots, but they also need better botting tools. Someone writes a really good custom bot program and sells it to the gold farmers. It isnt long until the program is leaked and available to torrent.
You now have a game with a hyper inflated economy and bots running rampant.
If those weapons had been soulbound, none of this would of happened. Why do you think binding items became more and more popular? This exact scenario ruined lineage 2