EQ Never

Mr Creed_sl said:

I dont mind roles, but I want DPS to be eliminated as a role.

If you want a trinity have it be heals/tanks/supports and give everyone the same dps capabilities. In this age everyone wants/needs dps for some activities, so give it to them instead of dancing around the issue with dual spec and various restrictions. That still leaves the burden on the designers to come up with a good second role for each class since pure damage isnt its own role anymore. But that's their job after all. between all the buffs, debuffs and control abilites they can mesh together from a dozen years and as many MMOs or more they should be able to manage.

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I've thought about that. Specifically how to eliminate dps meters. Most people like to dps but having your whole gaming experience tied to a fucking meter and a FOTM macro is pathetic.

One way to eliminate the dps meter bull is to just add more unpredictable reactive situations to fights. More dodging, enrages, blocking and skill reacts. Make those more important than the dps you do, although dps should matter too. This would also bring more skill to the fights. Not talking about the Rift kind of scripted fights either. Those suck and dps meters still rule.

Mashing a macro button is just as bad or worse than the old EQ "autoattack and get a pizza" mechanic.

Have we just gone full DDR circle? I think that was part of WoW's goal on the high end that got lost.

I missed the EQ boat because I happened to buy Asherons Call instead....really it could have gone either way. I remember being in Best Buy and not really knowing anything about either game or MMO's in general....I suppose if I had picked up EQ instead of AC I would be convinced it was the best MMO ever.

As it turns out I just fired up my AC account again and have decided to stick with it until something worth while (if) comes out. You cannot beat old school mmo...the current MMO's are trash that spoon feed you ever aspect of the game and make your toon just another nameless faceless clone. No sense of community (thanks server xfers and name changes at will), no exploration or mysteries to solve, just cookie cutter errand boy quests. So boring.

Since I can't speak for EQ, I can only go off my AC experience and what made that game great to me.
1. You had weight restrictions...so your strength stat/ability to self buff meant alot. If you were encumbered you were extremely inefficient in combat and even your run/jump speeds.

2. Monthly lore updates that only had "teasers/rumours" released by the dev's and in game town criers.....none of this "live stream PTR raid content" before the patch was even released. If you wanted to discover/learn/solve a puzzle you had to get in game and read the clues and figure it out.

3. Skill based characters that were created by the player. You decided which skills to focus on, there was/is no holy trinity.

4. Seamless world that you could run from one end of the world to the other without zoning once. See a mountain in the distance? Your able to run to it and climb it.....stumble across some hut in the middle of no where...who knows what your going to find inside....lore/items/rare mob/npc/dungeon portal....etc.......so many random lore things when you just pick a direction and run its amazing.

5. Dying had consequences. You die..you drop items based on your level. You need to play smart and not be in zones/areas you don't belong. If you die...and lose your uber armor or weapons you better hope a high level friend or guildmate is around to help you do a corpse recovery. This made big bad scary mobs ...well...scary.....!!

6. Unique items/rares that were available only for special events or only ONE per server. This is the shit legends are made of. Yes its a fake world....but we play to have fun and BE those legends in game right? 13 years later and you can still find posts/people talking about the Bael'zharon event (google bael'zharon rampage) and Nexus Shadow armor......

7. Leveling wasn't really a thing.....I mean it was there...but leveling was hard..there was no rush to end game (until macro'ers starting infesting) because you were focused on the world, the lore and character/skill development.

The list goes on and on.......WoW came long and changed the genre and while it was fun and new for it's time.......there is that real sense of roleplaying/immersion factor missing when you compare it to old school MMO's.

I know I ask way too much of the genre but I want different damage types, like bludgeoning, piercing, fire, etc.

Well I kind of just want Asheron's Call again but that would be a small compromise

Convo_sl said:

Doesn't that kind of kill the main DPS classes? I mean your healers would still heal and your tanks would still absorb a ton of damage.. where does that leave my Wizard!? Sounds like the other roles would still do what they do best but the main DPS classes would lose their appeal

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The traditional wizard becomes support via CC/buffs/debuffs and it's DPS part is secondary. It could work if you balance it properly. Everyone DPSs but you are used in group for your other abilities.

That would most likely mean less spam abilities I think. For example here's what I think could work, which would make Tad happy kind of.
-All classes have autoattack
-Wizards have CC/Buff/Debuff on short term cooldowns 10-20 seconds. You have to strategically cast these spells during combat. Think like Ray of Enfeeblement right before a big attack by the boss. CC is normal CC. Buff a tank for additional threat before a large wave. Stuff like that.
-Wizards have a long cooldown nukes, think 30-50s long. These major spells do a lot of damage, with longer cast times. This slows down your DPS rotation.

You can work this in with every traditional role in the cc/tank/healer trinity.

You can make all sorts of fun autoattack systems that go back to Muds. A wizard's autoattack is Magic Missile. at level 10 he casts 2, at level 30 he casts 3, at 60 5. You can then augment your autoattack to do splash damage or splash healing or whatever. You can augment it to cast faster but less damage, or cast less often for more damage. You can augment it proc dots, or stuns, or interupts.

Think of it as a way to customize your character. This is your talent tree so-to-speak. Then you an further augment it with gear etc.

I mean you can augment a warrior's autoattack with double/triple attack. You can make all sorts of things. This way your combat system becomes tactical and you get rid of the intense concentration of a dps rotation while moving through fire and more on paying attention to the fight and not your UI.

Caeden_sl said:

Have we just gone full DDR circle? I think that was part of WoW's goal on the high end that got lost.

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Didn't play WoW long enough to experience that. The idea isn't to make it a dance game, just to bring enough unexpected "oh shit" situations to each fight to keep dps meter watchers focused on the actual fight and not their hotbar rotation.

@Draegan.. yeah, I like those ideas.

How about QTEs?

bayr_sl said:

How about QTEs?

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Don't even joke about that.

Draegan_sl said:

I mean you can augment a warrior's autoattack with double/triple attack. You can make all sorts of things. This way your combat system becomes tactical and you get rid of the intense concentration of a dps rotation while moving through fire and more on paying attention to the fight and not your UI.

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That's what haste items and weapons with procs are for; no need to over-complicate things. You keep classes relatively simple and have fun with the equipment.

It's an arms race between the designers and the best players. Rotations become muscle memory then you've got high end people doing that shit while standing on their head or doing figure skating. So then we add skill procs. See where I'm going? Now do you cater to those or just let them troll how fucking easy the game is?

Then again, it seems most high end folks didnt care as long as simple content was gated behind mat and world buff farming.

tad10_sl said:

That's what haste items and weapons with procs are for; no need to over-complicate things. You keep classes relatively simple and have fun with the equipment.

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It's a combination of both. You have a natural progression and power gain as a character levels (autoattack gets better) while also augmenting it with gear and wep procs. I gives players something to play for. Getting level 20 so their warrior now has a chance to attack twice. Getting to level 25 to get dual wield.

This prevents ability bloat and keeps the majority of damage in autoattack.

It also allows for customization of your character via some kind of point system. A warrior can go down an agility path for higher chance to double/triple attack, or a warrior can go down strength to allow their swords to have a chance to cleave. Just random ideas though. I think it would be fun.

Draegan_sl said:

It's a combination of both. You have a natural progression and power gain as a character levels (autoattack gets better) while also augmenting it with gear and wep procs. I gives players something to play for. Getting level 20 so their warrior now has a chance to attack twice. Getting to level 25 to get dual wield.

This prevents ability bloat and keeps the majority of damage in autoattack.

It also allows for customization of your character via some kind of point system. A warrior can go down an agility path for higher chance to double/triple attack, or a warrior can go down strength to allow their swords to have a chance to cleave. Just random ideas though. I think it would be fun.

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any time you put variety like this in a game it has a much higher chance of being fun. the more variety you give the players, the more they can customize. this allows each player to feel unique (well, at least as unique as is possible in a MMO).

here's to hoping they produce a Vanguard/Metro 2033/Dead Island hybrid.

also, please include Blitzball.

I don't know when the concept of RPGs turned from turn-based type combat to push your rotations as fast and efficiently as possible, but it needs to fucking stop. I'll blame Blizzard for this bullshit too - STOP WITH THE ACTION RPGs

Dumar_sl said:

I don't know when the concept of RPGs turned from turn-based type combat to push your rotations as fast and efficiently as possible, but it needs to fucking stop. I'll blame Blizzard for this bullshit too - STOP WITH THE ACTION RPGs

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EQnext should require a DDR pad to play so we can tell which members of the raid are fat. It would add a lot of challenge to the game and MMO vets would finally sweat and struggle to down the mighty foes placed before them.

Dumar_sl said:

I don't know when the concept of RPGs turned from turn-based type combat to push your rotations as fast and efficiently as possible, but it needs to fucking stop. I'll blame Blizzard for this bullshit too - STOP WITH THE ACTION RPGs

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i think the fast paced button mashing era is behind us, Skyrim did a pretty okay job with a FPS hack n slash RPG. I was incredibly bored by Skyrim, but I wouldn't mind being in the FPS "drivers seat" so to speak when I get my Fiery Avenger etc..

Please no soft targeting in an mmo. It's disgusting. Or at least it hasn't been done well in the few mmos that I have played that had it.

Bellringer_sl said:

Please no soft targeting in an mmo. It's disgusting. Or at least it hasn't been done well in the few mmos that I have played that had it.

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I played a Rogue in Everquest.. was "soft targeting" for about 6 years.

Same deal with Tanks and even pullers, most melee had to put in some effort to position themselves well. Perhaps you weren't directing your sword path.. but the concept is there.

personally, i never really care or even think about combat that much when i play an MMO. EQ's combat just felt right to me, just the right pace. not saying it was the most epic combat i've ever witnessed, but when I'm playing an MMO, i'm not as concerned about the combat as I am about just having fun playing the game and being in the world. maybe the peripherals EQ offered in the way of entertainment made me blind to the actual combat, but i never saw it really as a flaw. when I'm playing a MMO i don't need it to play like mortal kombat or COD.