EQ Never

Teekey · Aug 12, 2013

slicedmass_sl said:
honestly i have not read much about the lore of eqn but honestly its irrelevant because they can shape the lore to dumb down the gameplay so maybe they should change the lore so the gameplay can have some substance.

At this point I'm not sure if it's dumbing it down. From what it seems, they're trying to make your individual choices matter more than having your status predisposed by race or religion. It could certainly end up being dumbed down if your choices end up not really mattering, however.

tad10_sl said:
But that's a huge mistake. You want some connection between games.

There's some connection. Not as much as I would really prefer, personally.

But honestly, having a good MMO is more important to me than having original EverQuest lore. If they felt the need to change it to be more consistent with 'improved' game mechanic changes they've made, then I'll atleast give it a shot before getting my pitchfork.

Edit: Also, I think me and you agree that this game is probably going to be very popular. The majority of players probably won't be from EQ, and won't give a shit whether the lore is at all similar to it. So while I personal don't like the decision, I don't really see it as a 'huge mistake' from a business perspective.

slicedmass_sl · Aug 12, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
At this point I'm not sure if it's dumbing it down. From what it seems, they're trying to make your individual choices matter more than having your status predisposed by race or religion. It could certainly end up being dumbed down if your choices end up not really mattering, however.

There's some connection. Not as much as I would really prefer, personally.

But honestly, having a good MMO is more important to me than having original EverQuest lore. If they felt the need to change it to be more consistent with 'improved' game mechanic changes they've made, then I'll atleast give it a shot before getting my pitchfork.

Agreed to an extent. Some of the cool things about EQ (yeah yeah diff game etc) was you would see trolls and ogres in cities that they originally should not be allowed in and they had to work for it (make choices) and that added a lot to the game.

rolx_sl · Aug 12, 2013

On another note.. does anyone think its odd that we have been discussing race combinations such as troll paladin, and then there just happens to be a poll on races and classes on EQN.com? I think some people are paying closer attention than we think. Good job devs, pls keep lurking here I promise you this board will give you the best info on making your game better.

slicedmass_sl · Aug 12, 2013

rolx_sl said:
On another note.. does anyone think its odd that we have been discussing race combinations such as troll paladin, and then there just happens to be a poll on races and classes on EQN.com? I think some people are paying closer attention than we think. Good job devs, pls keep lurking here I promise you this board will give you the best info on making your game better.

i think some devs are def looking here but i wouldn't flatter yourself (us) plenty of boards bring up the same issues.

rolx_sl · Aug 12, 2013

slicedmass_sl said:
i think some devs are def looking here but i wouldn't flatter yourself (us) plenty of boards bring up the same issues.

i'm not flattering myself I said we not I, if I had a discussion with myself i'd have like a million internets.

edit: just saw the thread on mmorpg I don't go on that site so I didn't know they were talking about it too. i'd bet 100 bux thats where they got the idea not from here.

zzeris · Aug 12, 2013

Everyone neutral really would be a stupid decision. I truly want to slow down the formation of Halas as a DE necromancer who is dedicated to Innoruuk. That probably wont happen but Troll Pallys sound ridiculous. Much like flesh eating, white unicorn mounts for DE necros. Ok, I could live with the second option...

Randin · Aug 12, 2013

tad10_sl said:
Apparently they want everything they want (Rollercoasters) nothing they don't want (Chainmail Bikinis) and there should be no racial or class restrictions. A Troll SK/Paladin mix should be as easy to get as a Half-Elf Ranger/Bard.

Just to clarify, do you mean "they" the devs, or "they" the people asking questions?

rhinohelix · Aug 12, 2013

"But Anakin can't be a Jedi, he's a Sith!!11!"

This takes place before such lines had been drawn, when ogres and trolls were distasteful but not much more than those smelly humans who eventually go live in Halas. I think it would/will be awesome; a great draw to play early as the game will change going forward. There may (will?) come a day when the Ogres/Troll descend and the Dark Elves build Neriak.

There isn't going to be anything hard-coded to stop you as a DE from opposing the construction of Halas, to the degree players are going to be able to do so. I would suspect that the evil gods will be in the game, just not a creation time choice, at least initially. Perhaps part of the unlocking of the Necro class will be to turn from the Seraph/Elementals to one of the evil gods.

I would also hope that the Foundings are essentially player-initiated missions that can be repeated multiple times until they succeed, if the Dev team makes the world deterministic. Halas will be built by players some day, not pass/fail if but when; if this is this case, let the Rally Call fail completely and make folks start completely over, rather than having a progress bar that only move very, very slowly but inexorably towards success.

On second thought, having the ruins of the settlement attempt become mob-infested, requiring an event-level clearing before work can start again, does sound cool.

Cinge · Aug 12, 2013

Rhinohelix_sl said:
"But Anakin can't be a Jedi, he's a Sith!!11!"

This takes place before such lines had been drawn, when ogres and trolls were distasteful but not much more than those smelly humans who eventually go live in Halas. I think it would/will be awesome; a great draw to play early as the game will change going forward. There may (will?) come a day when the Ogres/Troll descend and the Dark Elves build Neriak.

There isn't going to be anything hard-coded to stop you as a DE from opposing the construction of Halas, to the degree players are going to be able to do so. I would suspect that the evil gods will be in the game, just not a creation time choice, at least initially. Perhaps part of the unlocking of the Necro class will be to turn from the Seraph/Elementals to one of the evil gods.

I would also hope that the Foundings are essentially player-initiated missions that can be repeated multiple times until they succeed, if the Dev team makes the world deterministic. Halas will be built by players some day, not pass/fail if but when; if this is this case, let the Rally Call fail completely and make folks start completely over, rather than having a progress bar that only move very, very slowly but inexorably towards success.

On second thought, having the ruins of the settlement attempt become mob-infested, requiring an event-level clearing before work can start again, does sound cool.

If would be infinitely cooler if you could actually stop the building of Halas. The fact that its just going to happen no matter what is a big let down.

zzeris · Aug 12, 2013

Rhino,

I get your point but this isn't some start of the world Civ game. The world has already been inhabited for a while so having everyone as neutral early doesn't make much sense. Reminds me of the Aesop fable about the scorpion and the frog. 'Because it's in my nature'... I can see DEs being converted later but trolls being neutral? The designers already have the Iksar following their traits and history to try and enslave other races. But trolls are cute and cuddly! Trolls are selfish, hungry bastards who want to eat whatever they can get in their mouths. No one lowered their intelligence after losing a war. They were always evil, hungry, stupid, selfish creatures.

Woolygimp · Aug 12, 2013

Making customization purely aesthetic, without any substance, really removes a lot from the game. It's like playing checkers and each checkers piece just looking different but performing in exactly the same manner as every other piece on the board. Very bland.

Should all races have access to play all classes?
I?d like to see certain races restricted to certain classes based on lore 39.9%
I want to play any class with the race I choose, even if it means a penalty to some combinations 25.1%
It adds interest and replayability if some races can't play some classes 13.7%
I prefer to play just one character, so I want to be able to access all classes if I want. 19.0%
I don?t have a strong preference either way 2.4%

THE POLL IS (40+25%) VS (25+13.5%)

65% want restrictions vs 38%. Two thirds majority.

Sylas · Aug 12, 2013

Iannis_sl said:
I'm honestly kinda curious how Eve deals with it.

If ever there was a game that was begging to be client hacked for grief and profit, it's Eve. But you don't hear these horror stories about eve.

They deal with it the same way any competent developer does, do not trust the client. Other than EQ the only games i've heard of having client hacks is DCUO and Neverwinter, and both were due to retread dev's putting shit client side. I'm assuming SOE fixed DCUO? Cryptic fixed Neverwinter by just moving everything (stamina basically) server side to get rid of permablock, unlimited stealth, etc. Most of the "hacks" for EQ are things that either incorporated into the base game or allowed in newer MMOs via UI mods. ShowEQ/packet sniffer "hacks" were only relevant back then because SOE thought hiding most of that shit from the players was content. Later once they added Maps and rangers tracking was basically "see anything in the zone" there was no reason to use ShowEQ. MQ was basically just UI mods to show things that games show you by default nowadays that EQ thought was a "feature" not to show, like spell durations or cast times or whatever.

I don't get why you think Eve is begging for hacks? makes no sense. The client/ui already provides all the information you would ever need and more anyway (spreadsheets online) and everything is server side, not like you can make the client trick fuck the server into allowing you to, i dunno, I can't think of anything that get's hacked in other games that would even be applicable in Eve. It's just completely different.

Unchained Acolyte_sl · Aug 12, 2013

cinge_sl said:
If would be infinitely cooler if you could actually stop the building of Halas. The fact that its just going to happen no matter what is a big let down.

Exactly. Being able to deny the building of Halas is just as important for faction, guilds, alliances, RP, and server progression/development. There should be a two-sided progression to build and prevent/destroy Halas both in direct (quests, mats, small and large-scale PvP, PvE encounters, crafting, diplomacy/Storybricks) and indirect (attacking/killing NPCs involved with the building; stealing/harvesting/raiding resources; manipulating NPCs via Storybricks, etc.) ways.

*That* is sandbox play.

Limit, perhaps, some of the heavier-handed griefing elements, but otherwise let the players determine the course of the world in those larger instances. Allow Halas-building and other world events to be "spawned" periodically if the right conditions are met, but let it be TRULY EPIC in scope.

tad10 · Aug 12, 2013

Randin_sl said:
Just to clarify, do you mean "they" the devs, or "they" the people asking questions?

The People. Crazy stuff.

Ambiturner · Aug 12, 2013

Sylas_sl said:
They deal with it the same way any competent developer does, do not trust the client. Other than EQ the only games i've heard of having client hacks is DCUO and Neverwinter, and both were due to retread dev's putting shit client side. I'm assuming SOE fixed DCUO? Cryptic fixed Neverwinter by just moving everything (stamina basically) server side to get rid of permablock, unlimited stealth, etc. Most of the "hacks" for EQ are things that either incorporated into the base game or allowed in newer MMOs via UI mods. ShowEQ/packet sniffer "hacks" were only relevant back then because SOE thought hiding most of that shit from the players was content. Later once they added Maps and rangers tracking was basically "see anything in the zone" there was no reason to use ShowEQ. MQ was basically just UI mods to show things that games show you by default nowadays that EQ thought was a "feature" not to show, like spell durations or cast times or whatever.

I don't get why you think Eve is begging for hacks? makes no sense. The client/ui already provides all the information you would ever need and more anyway (spreadsheets online) and everything is server side, not like you can make the client trick fuck the server into allowing you to, i dunno, I can't think of anything that get's hacked in other games that would even be applicable in Eve. It's just completely different.

Didn't eq have hacks that allowed you to pretty much move from zone to zone instantly and attack with 0 delay?

tad10 · Aug 12, 2013

rolx_sl said:
Good job devs, pls keep lurking here I promise you this board will give you the best info on making your game better.

I don't know about "best" but at least we won't talk about houseboats. We might talk about whether or not wood floats and whether or not you could build large floating structures.

Tol_sl · Aug 12, 2013

tad10_sl said:
I don't know about "best" but at least we won't talk about houseboats. We might talk about whether or not wood floats and whether or not you could build large floating structures.

The great thing about houseboats is that if you don't like your neighbors you can just pull up the anchor and sail someplace else!

Quaid · Aug 12, 2013

Long shot, but if anyone of influence is lurking...

Will deliver tits for beta.

iannis · Aug 12, 2013

Unchained Acolyte_sl said:
Exactly. Being able to deny the building of Halas is just as important for faction, guilds, alliances, RP, and server progression/development. There should be a two-sided progression to build and prevent/destroy Halas both in direct (quests, mats, small and large-scale PvP, PvE encounters, crafting, diplomacy/Storybricks) and indirect (attacking/killing NPCs involved with the building; stealing/harvesting/raiding resources; manipulating NPCs via Storybricks, etc.) ways.

*That* is sandbox play.

Limit, perhaps, some of the heavier-handed griefing elements, but otherwise let the players determine the course of the world in those larger instances. Allow Halas-building and other world events to be "spawned" periodically if the right conditions are met, but let it be TRULY EPIC in scope.

On the other hand, if you do that, how do you stop it from turning into a One Guild to Rule Them All world like Shadowbane?

Eve avoids it. But is the "hardcore" pve EQ crowd willing to put up with how hardcore eve really is?

I honestly don't think they would be. It's a different mentality.

tad10 · Aug 12, 2013

Iannis_sl said:
On the other hand, if you do that, how do you stop it from turning into a One Guild to Rule Them All world like Shadowbane?

Eve avoids it. But is the "hardcore" pve EQ crowd willing to put up with how hardcore eve really is?

I honestly don't think they would be. It's a different mentality.

I'd enjoy opposing whatever the Goons are doing. I really don't like their hivemind, happy to ogg to destroy their structures in EQN.

EQ Never

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