EQ Never

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,568
7,881
We know for sure there are only 8 total weapon skills (4 skills for each weapon type). We know that the class abilities "level" as you tier up. But we don't know for sure if there are more than 4 skills per class - I thought there was something said to the effect there's 6-12 per class but

1. I can't find it AND
2. maybe they were talking about combined weapon skills + class abilities, anyway. Good question if anyone here will be at Gamescon.
I was under the impression they said that, once a class is obtained, you'd have to go out in the world to find some of their other abilities. My assumption was that each class comes with 4 abilities, and the there's are earned as you progress through tiered content. Increase power through abilities = higher capability in upper tier content. Makes sense to me.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Quality over quantity.
With at least 40 classes, the hope that one class is unique and different from another is probably misplaced.

Oh that's a wiza-- no, a sorc-- no, a mage, maybe a pyromanc--or an archmage? Maybe a battlemage. Nah, I think it's a... I give up. It's a caster.

That's what will happen.
 

Grumpus

Molten Core Raider
1,927
223
Ya know, in all honesty... I'm old, i'm grumpy and yea i dwell on the past of how awesome EQ was. But If i just had to pick 1 thing for EQN and leave the rest to them, i'd pick difficulty, that's all. I'll adjust to whatever combat dynamics they bring in, or limiting factors etc..
I want an MMO where if i happen to not be able to log in for 1 week and then i come back, 90% of the server is not at max "level". I don't want to log into EQN on the first day after 5 hours of "up time" and see a level 60 running through my zone. All i want is an MMO where level progression means something and the mobs can kick your ass.
If EQN does this, i'll be happy.
This shouldn't happen since the game world will not be complete when the game launches.

If you need to talk to every warrior trainer in all the major city's to reach tier 5, you won't be able to since the city's do not exist.

I think the first year of EQN will be a place to be. In theory of course.
 

Grumpus

Molten Core Raider
1,927
223
With at least 40 classes, the hope that one class is unique and different from another is probably misplaced.

Oh that's a wiza-- no, a sorc-- no, a mage, maybe a pyromanc--or an archmage? Maybe a battlemage. Nah, I think it's a... I give up. It's a caster.

That's what will happen.
Not the classes, just the ability's. I don't want recycled animations or particle effects.

4 ability's per class is 160, 5 is 200, 6 is 240, etc.

Since most classes should be able to use most ability's, when I see a warrior use an ability that doesn't belong to a warrior I want to be able to say he has unlocked Warlord,Conjurer,Shapeshifter,Assassin ability's just by watching the animations.
 

Lenas

Trump's Staff
7,496
2,236
It's going to be pretty hard to justify 5 tiers of advancement for each class if they don't get any new abilities. Unless they do something stupid and make a requirement like T5 monsters can only be hurt by T5 classes.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
I was under the impression they said that, once a class is obtained, you'd have to go out in the world to find some of their other abilities. My assumption was that each class comes with 4 abilities, and the there's are earned as you progress through tiered content. Increase power through abilities = higher capability in upper tier content. Makes sense to me.
I got the opposite. You get your weapon skills but class abilities you may only start with 1 or 2. Not all 4. However, I can't point to anything so - that's mostly speculation.
 

Grumpus

Molten Core Raider
1,927
223
I got the opposite. You get your weapon skills but class abilities you may only start with 1 or 2. Not all 4. However, I can't point to anything so - that's mostly speculation.
That would make the most sense for advancement. 4 ability's, start with 1 or 2, gain 3,4 through the tiers.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
That would make the most sense for advancement. 4 ability's, start with 1 or 2, gain 3,4 through the tiers.
That would mean 8x40 = 320 weapon abilities (ignoring probable duplicates like Assassin/Rogue both having backstab) and 4x40=160 character abilities (ignoring probable duplicates like Necro/SK skeleton pet or wtf) and 12 total abilities per class. I can't decide if that's lowball or not.

We will need clarification from McPherson (since he's the only guy who seems to respond - Butler, not so much)? BigFlex?
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Since most classes should be able to use most ability's, when I see a warrior use an ability that doesn't belong to a warrior I want to be able to say he has unlocked Warlord,Conjurer,Shapeshifter,Assassin ability's just by watching the animations.
This is what's confusing. So you can multiclass by picking abilities of that class to use instead of abilities of your main class currently? So that means when I switch classes, will the switch remember my favorite abilities from a subclass of the main class to which I'm switching? When I switch to my SK, will it remember I want my druid SoW as a favorite ability?

This sounds dumb to me if I'm even close to correct. Just drop the class facade, give us skills and be done with it.
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
480 abilities overall. That's like the number of abilities one class gets in EQ2 by level 30.

Edit - on a serious note I hope the fact that we will not see too many abilities per class means that all of them will be useful a good bit of the time. That's one thing that always made me angry in MMOs. Getting a pretty unique class ability that isn't worth the resources or time to use.
 

Grumpus

Molten Core Raider
1,927
223
This is what's confusing. So you can multiclass by picking abilities of that class to use instead of abilities of your main class currently? So that means when I switch classes, will the switch remember my favorite abilities from a subclass of the main class to which I'm switching? When I switch to my SK, will it remember I want my druid SoW as a favorite ability?

This sounds dumb to me if I'm even close to correct. Just drop the class facade, give us skills and be done with it.
Classes use of ability's will be restricted by your chosen classes resources as they relate to the ability's used. Chances are a warrior wouldn't be able to use Lightning Bolt because he doesn't have enough energy to channel or whatever.

I imagine there will be a list of ability's and the ones you cant use will be blocked out. They did mention they will have a large storage in place for load outs. So when you switch main class you should have your load outs ready.

It should start out simple and get more complex as you progress I would assume. 1 load out at first then hey I unlocked Warlord, better save the new load out and so on until you have 20 load outs saved.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
This is what's confusing. So you can multiclass by picking abilities of that class to use instead of abilities of your main class currently? So that means when I switch classes, will the switch remember my favorite abilities from a subclass of the main class to which I'm switching? When I switch to my SK, will it remember I want my druid SoW as a favorite ability?

This sounds dumb to me if I'm even close to correct. Just drop the class facade, give us skills and be done with it.
You're limited by the base class (Rogue is either 2O,2U or 2O,1U,1M - so you can never slot a defensive skill). You can save loadouts and switch them easily out of combat.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
This sounds dumb to me if I'm even close to correct. Just drop the class facade, give us skills and be done with it.
Also per Grumpus' point - you'll need massive itemization to be able to use multiple abilities in sequence.

I'd expect any type of Buff/DeBuff/Healing/Tracking/Well-known non-combat class ability to be a weapon skill and character abilities to be mostly in-combat abilities.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Classes use of ability's will be restricted by your chosen classes resources as they relate to the ability's used. Chances are a warrior wouldn't be able to use Lightning Bolt because he doesn't have enough energy to channel or whatever.

I imagine there will be a list of ability's and the ones you cant use will be blocked out. They did mention they will have a large storage in place for load outs. So when you switch main class you should have your load outs ready.

It should start out simple and get more complex as you progress I would assume. 1 load out at first then hey I unlocked Warlord, better save the new load out and so on until you have 20 load outs saved.
You're limited by the base class (Rogue is either 2O,2U or 2O,1U,1M - so you can never slot a defensive skill). You can save loadouts and switch them easily out of combat.
So instead of talent switching, we'll have class load out switching, which is really just the same thing.

You'll then need a macro that swaps your main class, sub class abilities to another main class, another sub class abilities, and also switch out the weapons and armor for both setups. If the UI is customizable, you'll likely need different addons for the newly switched to class combo too.

Additionally, no longer are we talking about just inventory management, but class management and class skill management.

SOUNDS EXCITING.
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
Also per Grumpus' point - you'll need massive itemization to be able to use multiple abilities in sequence.

I'd expect any type of Buff/DeBuff/Healing/Tracking/Well-known non-combat class ability to be a weapon skill and character abilities to be mostly in-combat abilities.
Do you mean buffs/debuffs/non-combat (tracking) will be mainly character abilities while weapon skills will be mainly in-combat abilities?
 

Jarnin_sl

shitlord
351
0
Do you mean buffs/debuffs/non-combat (tracking) will be mainly character abilities while weapon skills will be mainly in-combat abilities?
Class abilities are tied to classes. You get 4.

Weapon abilities are tied to specific types of weapons. You get 4.

Class determines which weapons you can use. Each class has two choices of weapon (Sword+shield = 1 weapon choice)
 

Grumpus

Molten Core Raider
1,927
223
If they make the ability's gained through classes (not weapon ability's) the more unique of the two this game will be awesome.

Think of how WoW looks on raids. 3 Mages standing next to each other in the highest tier gear using Generic nuke 1 look like mirror images of each other fighting shit.

If they make all 160 class ability's unique looking in EQN then each raid force would look completely unique to itself given there isn't an optimal load out for each task.
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
So instead of talent switching, we'll have class load out switching, which is really just the same thing.

You'll then need a macro that swaps your main class, sub class abilities to another main class, another sub class abilities, and also switch out the weapons and armor for both setups. If the UI is customizable, you'll likely need different addons for the newly switched to class combo too.

Additionally, no longer are we talking about just inventory management, but class management and class skill management.

SOUNDS EXCITING.
So you would rather be a rogue spamming an evade macro every CD and back stab while auto attack is on?

I would like to think about and have to change up my abilities before a boss or a specific part of a dungeon so my group can beat it instead of did slow land? K CH spam time while DPS auto attacks. It'll be even better if my abilities and others in my groups have to we worked out through a little trial and error on an encounter.
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
Class abilities are tied to classes. You get 4.

Weapon abilities are tied to specific types of weapons. You get 4.

Class determines which weapons you can use. Each class has two choices of weapon (Sword+shield = 1 weapon choice)
I know he worded to sou d like your buffs/tracking would be based on weapon abilities. I would think it would be the opposite. Like a ranger wielding 2 swords or a bow could still have track opposed to only being g able to use it with a bow.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Do you mean buffs/debuffs/non-combat (tracking) will be mainly character abilities while weapon skills will be mainly in-combat abilities?
I used to think that since it made more sense. But if character abilities are mostly non-combat skills then it makes slotting less useful. More likely: weapon skills are a mix of non-combat/combat skills and character abilities are more combat focused.

Eh, I should probably stop talking out of my ass and speculating - because now I can see arguments either way.