EQ Never

Royal

Royal

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Quineloe_sl said:
actually exp penalties for stronger classes is not a good idea, because once they're at the level cap...
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Exactamundo. This is why they were removed in the first place. Intentionally imbalanced classes is all well and good in AD&D, because everyone sitting at the table is going to be fully included regardless of what class they're playing. It doesn't work that way in an MMO. That realization was one of the more "duh" moments for Verant & Co. Once you allow that all classes need to be relatively balanced, the notion of class XP penalties becomes absurd.
 
Soygen

Soygen

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supertouch_sl said:
i said it never took me more than 2 minutes to get a certain class to join my group. having to wait to join a certain camp had nothing to do with an lfg tool or lack thereof.
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And I still disagree that you could get any particular class within "2 minutes"; at least on Prexus from 1999 - 2005. I didn't mention camps.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Quineloe_sl said:
As long as the balance differences are minor, do you really need a stiff exp penalty to offset them?

btw, I remember just fine when SKs and Paladins had a massive advantage over warriors =P
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And that's why there were so many sks and paladins main tanking in raids....

When you start taking out all the things that made EQ1 unique, then guess what? You end up with extruded grey pablum. I'm not saying EQ1 should have every aspect copied, but variety, penalites and rare classes / races are a good thing. Daoc had a bazzilon different classes / races and it was awesome.

Rift and all the new mmo's have blended everything together and it is boring.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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Ukerric_sl said:
It's probably bad then. Because, if your ONLY revenue to recoup the investment is your cash shop, then you can be sure the cash shop IS mandatory to a degree.
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It wont be their only revenue if they stick to their PS2 model (that is afaik the intention). PS2 offers a subscription for increased xp gain and some perks, similar to xp potions in various F2P games. As long as leveling isnt a race from A to B and xp is worthless afterwards, that's gonna bring in the money. Question is does it force you into a sub because you cant compete (does that term even apply?), or does it fall under "nice to have" (imo for PS2 it is nice but nowhere near required)?
 
Quineloe

Quineloe

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Grim1_sl said:
And that's why there were so many sks and paladins main tanking in raids....
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Yes, there were a few, to prove it worked. They didn't push aside the veteran warrior MTs with 3+ years of raiding experience back then, in todays environment they would have.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Quineloe_sl said:
Yes, there were a few, to prove it worked. They didn't push aside the veteran warrior MTs with 3+ years of raiding experience back then, in todays environment they would have.
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Not in any real raid, trivialized content doesn't count. Warrior's defensive was too strong and that is why there were 8 wars to every sk/pal in most raids.

Modern EQ is not the EQ anyone uses as a benchmark.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
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Grim1_sl said:
Not in any real raid, trivialized content doesn't count. Warrior's defensive was too strong and that is why there were 8 wars to every sk/pal in most raids.

Modern EQ is not the EQ anyone uses as a benchmark.
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What are you talking about? Our raid tank was a SK right up through POT when the guild left for WOW.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Zeus_sl said:
What are you talking about? Our raid tank was a SK right up through POT when the guild left for WOW.
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Then you were doing trivial content. All endgame raids had only Wars as mt. Sk's and Pals occassionally tanked trash, but for the Big Mob(s) it was only Wars because defensive was the only way any tank could survive.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

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Grim1_sl said:
Then you were doing trivial content. All endgame raids had only Wars as mt. Sk's and Pals occassionally tanked trash, but for the Big Mob(s) it was only Wars because defensive was the only way any tank could survive.
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I was a MT warrior from Kunark all the way through DoN (or slightly after that, can't quite remember), and can attest firsthand that your statement is absolutely untrue. Every guild I was in had Pal/SK in the tanking rotation, and depending on the boss, their snap aggro was a huge bonus as it allowed the raid to engage earlier.

Some bosses hit so hard that defensive was a good thing, yes, but the majority weren't in that category. For those that did hit that hard, defensive wasn't the only reason that warriors shined: AC and mitigation were better for us. But it wasn't often that this was an absolute requirement.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Zeus_sl said:
LOL, ok.
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It's true and you know it. I main tanked in a mid tier guild as a Sk, but it was old content. When I joined the top guild on the server only Wars were mt for the endgame content. You rotated Wars and when defensive went down, the next one took over. That was true in all endgame raiding guilds.

I'm not saying that is the way things should be designed, but that is the way it was.

Because of defensive, Wars were the strongest tank, especially for raids. Claiming otherwise is just idiocy. Quineloe is trying to claim that Sk's and Pals were the stronger class and he is just wrong. Sk's and Pal's had utility and that was their strong point. But Wars were the premier tank class

I was fine with that. Sk's had a different role. I could pull, offtank, etc. Sk's were rare because it was more about the player than the abilities the class brought to he table. Sk's didn't have a well defined role. I wasn't able to tank the endgame ubah mob, but that's cool. That was the War's role.

My original point was that having different classes be actually different is a good thing. Some classes shine solo, some shine in groups and some shine in raids. If you try to make all classes good at all things then you might as well just make a fps game. And there are lots of crappy mmos out for you people who hate variety. Go play them. Penalties for certain classes / races is fine also. If you don't want to deal with the penalties then don't play the class.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Alkorin_sl said:
I was a MT warrior from Kunark all the way through DoN (or slightly after that, can't quite remember), and can attest firsthand that your statement is absolutely untrue. Every guild I was in had Pal/SK in the tanking rotation, and depending on the boss, their snap aggro was a huge bonus as it allowed the raid to engage earlier.

Some bosses hit so hard that defensive was a good thing, yes, but the majority weren't in that category. For those that did hit that hard, defensive wasn't the only reason that warriors shined: AC and mitigation were better for us. But it wasn't often that this was an absolute requirement.
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Yes, Sks and Pals could be dropped in for certain things. Especially snap agro issues. Whenever the main mob got out of control and went after the clothies, a SK or Pal was expected to save them. But the Wars took over as soon as we died. Without defensive we didn't last long.

And the more bleeding edge you got in raid content, the more Wars shined and the SK/Pals were sidelined.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Lol, right. You go girl.

There were a couple bosses you could use a ranger on though. We even had an enchanter tank a LDON boss once, this was right after LDON came out mind you. It wasn't trivial. Don't remember why we used the chanter, I think just because we figured out it could be done.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

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Pookas were the best tanks in the game. Especially hasted.

Edit: There were a couple of SK tanks in LoS that did a fair amount of endgame shit, but yes, more often than not, warriors did the hard work. I think I remember us trying Overlord Mata Muram with SKs/Paladins once.
 
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Merlin_sl

shitlord
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Grim1_sl said:
My original point was that having different classes be actually different is a good thing. Some classes shine solo, some shine in groups and some shine in raids. If you try to make all classes good at all things then you might as well just make a fps game. And there are lots of crappy mmos out for you people who hate variety. Go play them. Penalties for certain classes / races is fine also. If you don't want to deal with the penalties then don't play the class.
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That, I couldn't agree with more. All to often now the classes in current MMO's are all the same with different names. Just because playerswantthe ability to do everything, it's not that great an idea in practice.
 
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