Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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If everyone around you had to listen to it that would be the most awesome thing ever
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
On leash mobs, from Kunark+ mobs would stop running after a while but if you'd come back within certain distance, they will rush back to you ( and proxy aggro anything along the way ), especially for roamers. I really don't see why it cannot be implemented in a seamless world. There are still "zone"/"area", just leash the mob when crossing the area line.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,518
- 583
Not if they need a group and the less efficient guy is the one who's available. That bullshit only works when you can be picky (small raid sizes, no need for leveling in dungeons, etc.) and is only necessary when you have to be picky (small raid sizes).
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 583
+1, Similiarly FD should work great against smart mobs but shouldn't really work against many animal mobs. They may stop attacking you, but if they're hungry and carnivores or omniovres they should continue to "eat you" causing damage.
Baghwan
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 78
- 3
It always perplexed me, all you hear about BRD is how everyone loved it, it's always ranked as a favorite dungeon in WoW, but Blizzard never bothered creating another grand dungeon so seamlessly winged and entwined, surely a similar design is worth taking a gamble on again. Not asking to end all 30min scripted McDungeons, but once an expansion instead of having Slave Pens, Underbog and Steamvaults separate, combine them and let players design their own wings, or mega crawl though the whole thing.
Almost no one grabs a pick up group and goes and does dungeons, and even most guild groups will jump in to the lfg tool to get ported to the dungeon. A BRD in the LFD rotation would be that dungeon that everyone quits out of if its the one that pops. Unfortunately if there's a faster way to acquire loot and end of dungeon xp people will do that instead.
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That's not exactly true. For most people, BRD was horrible and for most people BRD was only the king run with a key, you can bet most people who played vanilla wow didn't even know how to get the key. For the few people who post on this board, it was a great dungeon because it wasn't the usual wow shit. Even then it wasn't that much of an anomaly, back in vanilla. It probably was the best designed and largest, but shit like stratholme used a similar "large area where you can go multiple ways" design while scholomance overused the "rooms full of mobs with patrols that can link and groups you have to CC" so much that most pubs thought doing scholomance wasn't possible once they added instance caps.
Overall I think it's this kind of stuff that people remember from the vanilla wow era that was a "great game". A lot of the shit in vanilla was god awful however and I don't think anyone would play vanilla wow nowadays and like it, but on the other hand some things were actually quite nice compared to what came later, especially before raid tiers and refocusing the goal on that. It had open elite areas where people could in theory grind(but no reward and questing being a lot more efficient kinda killed that), world bosses and some fairly complex and interesting dungeons(emphasis on SOME, since a lot were still shitty).
Thing though is as Blizzard moved away from that model and more into streamlined simple and quick to complete content, those became obsolete and you can't just add a new BRD right now and expect anyone to even bother doing it. Just wouldn't work in modern wow.
Well, like you said, it didn'treallywork in vanilla either - it was just that for non-raiders (read: most people at launch), BRD/BRS/Strat/Scholowerethe endgame so it was either run them again or, well. nothing.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,518
- 583
I can't speak for anyone else or myself after EQN reveal (if miracle of miracle it actually looks good instead of some godawful arpg bs - cross-fingers+knock on wood+spin around 3 times) - but I've said for years that I'd give Blizz my $15 bucks a month if they had a vanilla progression that started with original AV/pre slow weapon DPS nerf (I think that means patch v. 1.5 ) - pre-nerf means blues could be better then *gasp* purples so you actually had to look at your weapons and original AV was some of the most fun I ever had in WoW. I played Emerald Dream until 43 or 44 and enjoyed it (even thout it was post-slow weapon nerf) until the usual PvP bullshit began and I got camped by a couple of Goon horde in the Badlands for a week - hooray twofaction PvP where there's a huge population imbalance
and that was with the boring AV and post slow weapon dps nerf.People knock SOE for being idiots with some of their decisions, but Blizzard is just as bad - there are hundreds of WoW emu servers, Blizzard should have followed SOE's lead and started progression servers.
tower
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 375
- 155
BRD was ok. I am glad it existed. I remember farming one of the bosses there to sell the fiery enchant recipe. Same for the Barman Shanker guy. It was an instanced version of an old school dungeon. It had a purpose to be there other than "hallways filled with loot."
I have much fonder memories of Strat (both sides) and UBRS/LBRS, however. Regardless, Blizzard decided that the Scarlet Monastery model was the way to go. Funny this is I remember SM quite well. All the copies of it? Not so much.
Also people forget that during the MC days and even early BWL you could still be competitive in high-end blues. Although some of that might have been a side effect of 40 man raids limiting loot distribution.
I have much fonder memories of Strat (both sides) and UBRS/LBRS, however. Regardless, Blizzard decided that the Scarlet Monastery model was the way to go. Funny this is I remember SM quite well. All the copies of it? Not so much.
Also people forget that during the MC days and even early BWL you could still be competitive in high-end blues. Although some of that might have been a side effect of 40 man raids limiting loot distribution.
Hekotat
FoH nuclear response team
- 12,101
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I swear there was a patch that removed a ton of the dungeon to streamline it more.
Actually runningnothingis better than almost every dungeon post-TBC. You could literally have the devs create nothing, and that nothing would be a better design than any dungeon from Wrath onwards.
There was - they chopped it to pieces. I was at Blizzcon when they announced it, and the audience cheered, which showed the level of retardism of both the designers and the fanbase in this wretched industry.
They'll cheer at anything that makes it easier on them. What's left is a prettier Simon Says with more colors.
I believe that let you que for sections of the dungeon now, and they unlocked the door that lets you skip some of it but you can still run around the whole thing.
Thats sad, BRD was one of my favorite parts of WoW. I went back and played recently, and most of the LFD's I did were just like, an L-shaped line you walked through and killed 3 minibosses. That is just terrible. I want really elaborate dungeons where getting around is an accomplishment. I *still* feel lost when I go deep enough into runnyeye or befallen, and I love that feeling.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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Verant had their forums for a while, but shut them down after they couldn't handle the sheer volume of complaining and flaming. This was maybe around Velious time? New official forums came up a couple years later and are still going now.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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- 276
Vanilla WoW dungeons played differently then EQ due to no respawn, but imo you still see the influences of making a world and using some of it as a dungeon, as opposed to the BC and beyond method of taking a dungeon template (3 corridors connecting 4 rooms with 3 boss encounters and 11 trash packs) and putting into the world map where they want it. BRD is a great example but almost every other vanilla dungeon works as well for that comparison. Shadowfang was a believable layout for a borderlands keep, scarlet monastery made sense, etc.
Re: eliminating dps as a role:
As said before, every class would have their own take on tanking, support, control or healing (not all 4 at once) AND dps at the same time. Yea you can no longer get by with only 4 spells memorized as a wizard during raids, and you also cant automatically whip out the dps e-peen just because of class choice. Good wizards will still shine at dps and doing their other tasks (lets say they have support-based abilities) at the same time. Bad wizards will be more visible because their dps might suffer, or if their dps is still good maybe they totally space out on their other role. Doing this and have the limited action system also allows you to essentially get rid of dual spec and other crutches that are meant to split damage capability from strong healing or tanking.
Give characters their various abilities at a base efficiency through training and gameplay, and from there allow them to spend accumulated xp to enhance them in various ways, an AA-like system. More playtime and thus more xp doesnt make you much more powerful then the casual, but assuming your character can use 12 skills at the same time: you might have 15 skills maxed and 10 improved sufficiently and another 10 slightly, out of a lot of 50. Meanwhile the casual can be as good in those skills if he wants but isnt as flexible because he doesnt have the xp to raise all those other skills as far, or he spreads out more and isnt at peak with the whole loadout. In time he'll catch up on the most used skills but by then the hardcore player again has a broader repertoire to bettter deal with specific bosses or dungeons. You're always ahead of the masses as hardcore but at the same you dont trivialize everything through sheer power.
I would pair this with a slow, vertical item progression so that content from a year ago is easier but not faceroll, and 3 year old content is faceroll with the numbers it is tuned for or a bit less but not soloable (i.e. more like EQ was and less like WoW in this regard).
Re: eliminating dps as a role:
As said before, every class would have their own take on tanking, support, control or healing (not all 4 at once) AND dps at the same time. Yea you can no longer get by with only 4 spells memorized as a wizard during raids, and you also cant automatically whip out the dps e-peen just because of class choice. Good wizards will still shine at dps and doing their other tasks (lets say they have support-based abilities) at the same time. Bad wizards will be more visible because their dps might suffer, or if their dps is still good maybe they totally space out on their other role. Doing this and have the limited action system also allows you to essentially get rid of dual spec and other crutches that are meant to split damage capability from strong healing or tanking.
Give characters their various abilities at a base efficiency through training and gameplay, and from there allow them to spend accumulated xp to enhance them in various ways, an AA-like system. More playtime and thus more xp doesnt make you much more powerful then the casual, but assuming your character can use 12 skills at the same time: you might have 15 skills maxed and 10 improved sufficiently and another 10 slightly, out of a lot of 50. Meanwhile the casual can be as good in those skills if he wants but isnt as flexible because he doesnt have the xp to raise all those other skills as far, or he spreads out more and isnt at peak with the whole loadout. In time he'll catch up on the most used skills but by then the hardcore player again has a broader repertoire to bettter deal with specific bosses or dungeons. You're always ahead of the masses as hardcore but at the same you dont trivialize everything through sheer power.
I would pair this with a slow, vertical item progression so that content from a year ago is easier but not faceroll, and 3 year old content is faceroll with the numbers it is tuned for or a bit less but not soloable (i.e. more like EQ was and less like WoW in this regard).