wow, didn't realize you were the final say in MMO decisions. congrats on your position. XP boosters are p2w, you can't even make a valid argument why they aren't. you are gaining a distinct advantage over everyone who isn't buying XP boosters. and all this "they're here to stay" is just bullshit. don't offer them in your game, and they're not an option! even back in original EQ, you could buy items off of other players, or on ebay, but the one thing you couldn't buy was time, or a way around actually playing the game. i honestly have less of a problem with people purchasing items off of ebay than i do with XP boosters. at least the people buying items still have to invest the same amount of time into playing the game. is that so hard for you to understand?
EQ Never
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tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Problem is Grim is comparing a long-running game (EQ) with a new game (EQN). There is a case to be made for purchaseable XP pots in a long-running game where the majority of the playerbase is at cap and which is designed for multiplayer. There is no case to be made for XP pots in a new game unless the leveling experience sucks.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 601
Once EQN is released I expect Itzena to be the Head FanBoy for it on these boards.
On one hand if you create a game where leveling is a relevant part of the game (EQ1). Then XP potions aren't needed.
The problem is that so many games lately (wow+clones) are designed to allow even the most remedial among society be able to succeed in achieving max level in a reasonable amount of time. The problem with that mindset is that the end game population has not accomplished anything real in the game yet.
Many people say "end-game is where the real game begins". I agree to this to a certain extent, but it may be phrased wrong. Perhaps endgame is just a completely different game. If you fully believe that endgame is the "real-game" what is the point of leveling? Just start at max level or not have any levels.
MMOs were based in a large part by D&D mechanics. Leveling is a huge part and has for the most part been ignored in these games. Too many games have been designed to make leveling "less painful" instead of "challenging and fun". A leveling process that presents a challenge is equivalent to being fun for competitive players. Creating a challenging leveling process ends up creating a better quality player once they hit max level.
The problem with this is that there is that segment of the gaming population who does not want to be bothered with a challenge. They want quickly get max level and start gearing their character with their end game "final" gear. They want it and they want it now. They don't want to be burdened with having to put forth time and effort. I bring this up in many of my posts but it's the single player game mentality. People subconsciously ignore the journey and only want the gratification of finishing. These are the players who enjoy the F2P/P2W model that allows them to spend some money, get everything they want out of the game, then move on to the next.
At its core, it comes down to the fundamental difference between at least two large groups of the gaming population. Unfortunately a MMO cannot be created to cater to both. Eventually the industry will realize this. There will be the plethora of F2P MMOs that people juggle for months at a time, and there will eventually be another game that keeps a profitable gaming population for 15+ years (EQ1).
For those harassing people in this thread about how they will never get an MMO like EQ again. You are dead wrong. The community already exists, we are just waiting for a company to provide the service.
The problem is that so many games lately (wow+clones) are designed to allow even the most remedial among society be able to succeed in achieving max level in a reasonable amount of time. The problem with that mindset is that the end game population has not accomplished anything real in the game yet.
Many people say "end-game is where the real game begins". I agree to this to a certain extent, but it may be phrased wrong. Perhaps endgame is just a completely different game. If you fully believe that endgame is the "real-game" what is the point of leveling? Just start at max level or not have any levels.
MMOs were based in a large part by D&D mechanics. Leveling is a huge part and has for the most part been ignored in these games. Too many games have been designed to make leveling "less painful" instead of "challenging and fun". A leveling process that presents a challenge is equivalent to being fun for competitive players. Creating a challenging leveling process ends up creating a better quality player once they hit max level.
The problem with this is that there is that segment of the gaming population who does not want to be bothered with a challenge. They want quickly get max level and start gearing their character with their end game "final" gear. They want it and they want it now. They don't want to be burdened with having to put forth time and effort. I bring this up in many of my posts but it's the single player game mentality. People subconsciously ignore the journey and only want the gratification of finishing. These are the players who enjoy the F2P/P2W model that allows them to spend some money, get everything they want out of the game, then move on to the next.
At its core, it comes down to the fundamental difference between at least two large groups of the gaming population. Unfortunately a MMO cannot be created to cater to both. Eventually the industry will realize this. There will be the plethora of F2P MMOs that people juggle for months at a time, and there will eventually be another game that keeps a profitable gaming population for 15+ years (EQ1).
For those harassing people in this thread about how they will never get an MMO like EQ again. You are dead wrong. The community already exists, we are just waiting for a company to provide the service.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
Only for raiders. I always preferred grouping and slow-leveling through interesting dungeons to raiding at endgame.
Too general. I consider myself a hardcore raider but I fully believe that the leveling process is what should separate the men from the boys.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
- 4,269
- 5,690
all this talk about F2P/microtransaction/P2W stuff has me reminiscing about CCP's attempt to do it in Eve. They came out with a cosmetic cash shop which was whatever, but then it was leaked that they had plans to do much more ala p2w. The playerbase said "no you're not" and then burned Jita to the ground. Then CCP said "oh shit, our bad, ok we'll only do cosmetic shit, sorry guys" and that was that.
Can't imagine players having that much power in anything but a Sandbox game, and only if it's initially a Sub-game. Because in addition to making the main market hub unplayable, a sizable minority of players also cancelled their accounts with reason of "fuck your p2w bullshit". A fairly large portion of their monthly revenue gave them a deadline (the end of their billing cycle) to unfuck their decisions and so they did. The thing is, CCP would have probably made more money sticking to their guns and adding p2w, but they never got a chance to find out because enough vocal minority of players said no.
That worries me about EQN. It's designed as f2p from the get go, and if the "sandbox" they're trying to make isn't making the money it needs to with fluff shit then they'll add p2w. And what will you do then? Stop paying them your 0$ a month? Stop playing their game for free, taking up resources and shit they could otherwise devote to people who will p2w?
Can't imagine players having that much power in anything but a Sandbox game, and only if it's initially a Sub-game. Because in addition to making the main market hub unplayable, a sizable minority of players also cancelled their accounts with reason of "fuck your p2w bullshit". A fairly large portion of their monthly revenue gave them a deadline (the end of their billing cycle) to unfuck their decisions and so they did. The thing is, CCP would have probably made more money sticking to their guns and adding p2w, but they never got a chance to find out because enough vocal minority of players said no.
That worries me about EQN. It's designed as f2p from the get go, and if the "sandbox" they're trying to make isn't making the money it needs to with fluff shit then they'll add p2w. And what will you do then? Stop paying them your 0$ a month? Stop playing their game for free, taking up resources and shit they could otherwise devote to people who will p2w?
Want to believe what? That a game will be created to cater to people who want to pay money to play a game the way they want to play it? Go play in the road rere.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
That the market for a game that I would find challenging is large enough to warrant a mmo.
You can't get a game developed for 5k people, but if you are more interested in calling people retarded for being completely correct then i guess that works too.
I get to 5 thousand by reading this very thread. The bring back old EQ crowd eg (this forum) doesn't identify with the currently playing crowd because theyre all "stoners and assholes". The bring back old EQ crowd doesn't identify with the vast majority of people who moved on to greener pastures when games they considered better were released because how could they think anything is better than old eq. The bring back old EQ crowd doesn't identify with anyone in the industry that actually enjoyed their time NOT playing everquest. You know what that leaves you? It leaves you all the people who have spent the last ten years being bitter malcontents. They haven't participated fully in the genre for a decade and wonder why it's not what they want. so that gets me down to the people on this forum and other private forums and the few super bitter ultra negative posters over on mmorpg.com, that's your audience.
edit: grammar
For you nutty people who think xp boosters are paying to win, how are the people leveling faster than you beating you and winning? What is the goal line they are beating you at? If you're all about leveling and watching the journey, how is leveling faster beating you?
edit:
The only way this is pay to win, is if you are one of those who loves racing to the max level at release. And if you are, I can't see how you can complain that you have to drop $20 on game that will be free to play (you don't even have to buy the box) to do that.
Oh well.
edit:
The only way this is pay to win, is if you are one of those who loves racing to the max level at release. And if you are, I can't see how you can complain that you have to drop $20 on game that will be free to play (you don't even have to buy the box) to do that.
Oh well.
I guess if you were racing to the top they would be "beating" you there. But most of these people say the leveling should be an important part of the journey, which I agree with, but then if you are spending time taking it all in you aren't the person racing to max level anyway. Rift is a meh game really but when you hit the storm legion part of the game leveling slows way down and it's nice to be able to choose whether you want to level at standard rate or get up to max on your alt to raid with guildies. So i think a good compromise would be to set normal leveling speed at a pretty slow pace and allow the people who hate leveling to move through a bit faster.