EQ Never

Mughal_sl said:

As an interesting side note, some sports are all about the equipment that you can buy. Remember the Jamaican bobsled team? They even made a comedy movie about it. In reality the DDR was running out of money and they managed to buy all the German equipment for little and that's how they were able to compete. Some sports do have a strong monetary component beyond just buying the best players (like winter sports, F1 etc).

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Yeah I never want MMO's to ever be able to be compared to Nascar.

Azeth_sl said:

i dont think that's accurate.

P2W cash shop items are pretty easy to identify

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I agree, they are easy to identify. I disagree with what is pay to win, as that distinction is up for debate apparently. Imo an time advantage that is below doubling required time isnt pay to win. You disagree. That's fine, no need to get riled over that. And I'll be on board with a "no cash shop sub only pve grouping focused long term game" ... thing is you are looking at SOE making it it seems? They never will. I havent seen a serious kickstarter effort in that direction but its the best hope.

Byr_sl said:

time is the most precious currency in any game. If I spend more time than you at it, I will likely be further along, better geared, etc ,etc. There isnt a bigger advantage over someone you can buy.

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That's what some other posters already questioned: What advantage is that exactly? I see the advantage in a pvp situation, or one where you compete for a limited amount of monsters to kill. But a situation like that is really a thing of the past as far as current-gen MMOs are concerned. It's unfortunate imo because I think the genre is regressing in many ways and turning into a regular multiplayer game, but that's how it is.

Convo_sl said:

I just get the vibe there is some serious underlining EQ hate. Rumors are just rumors at this point but after a lot of talk and thinking about what EQN will be it's more likely to disappoint the WoW player than the EQ player. I know some people disagree but the best long term option for this industry is to go niche. You basically already know how to go about that. It's just a matter of companies figuring out how to turn a decent profit.

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It's gonna disappoint the WoW player and EQ-extremists for sure. I think it'll mostly be interesting for people that are looking for new twists and not retreads. If all the sandbox hints from Smed and the storybricks stuff works out, anyway.

Bellringer_sl said:

K. Let's look at it another way. How is an XP potion different than being able to buy pve gear while leveling? PVE will make your character strong enough to kill more shit per hour which increases XP gain per hour. Pretty much the same thing. There are multiple different ways to look at it. No matter what way you look at it. XP potions, gear, or whatever - it gives a player an advantage over another character, however big or small that advantage becomes is irrelevant. It alienates your audience.

PS. Not really sure why this is even being debated in this thread. lol.

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What's not getting through to you is that only very few people see any competition between you and the guy with the bought items. I think the reason might be that you look at it from an EQ'99 view where, I dunno it might have been a topic. Ebay item sales, as mentioned, were a reality. And are apparently even more rampant in the EMUs, I wouldnt know I dont touch those. Everyone else is looking at it from a current-gen game point of view, where those potions or boosts exist and are harmless. EQ1 has them! (I guess it isnt the same anymore either though, havent played since '04).

Of course some guy from the 50s is going to think of a black president or russian soldiers training on US soil differently then one from 2013. You are the guy from the 50s here. Dont be that guy.

Mr Creed_sl said:

Of course some guy from the 50s is going to think of a black president or russian soldiers training on US soil differently then one from 2013. You are the guy from the 50s here. Dont be that guy.

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I don't even know where to begin.

-1

This thread has been very useful. It's exposed the it's a journey and the game shouldn't starts at cap stuff as total and complete bullshit. What those people really want is for the massive amount of time they can invest to give them a huge advantage. XP pots eliminate that time advantage.

Anyone that is power leveling in this game to race to the end is already going to purchase anything that helps them get there. They already do this in any game with real life shit from foods and drinks etc. Plus in a game that is free to play and you don't need to buy a box, I don't see the big deal about droping $20 to buy some boosts.

If you're worried and complaining about that stuff, you're not the type of person to ever get world firsts or win leveling races anyway. So why care?

Tad, I know you like slow leveling and like to take your time and do all the dungeons and stuff. That's probably not the perfect way to level so you're not going to be first anyway, with or without the potions. So your scenario about rare loot or whatever is going to happen to you anyway whether there are xp pots or not.

If it's all about the leveling journey then people doing it faster doesn't matter to you. People, younger than you or people without jobs are going to be playing a lot more than you in the first place. Should we limit the time people can play in a single day? I mean, if people are willing to use days off at release, and you're not going to do that, you're at a disadvantage there too.

Draegan_sl said:

Should we limit the time people can play in a single day? I mean, if people are willing to use days off at release, and you're not going to do that, you're at a disadvantage there too.

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Apples and Jackhammer comparisons. In an MMO the fundamental equation is: time invested x risk = reward. XP Potions fuck up the equation. I may put in 8 hours on a Saturday but I never put in 8 hours on a M-Fri. If somone is putting in 8 hours M-Sunday then they deserve everything they get, and they deserve more than I am getting.

I still benefit from them because they'll end up putting lots of crap up for sale, which will accelerate my advancement but in a world-friendly way. As for leveling speed, I had several world-firsts and server-first items & locations in Vanguard ;-) Which brings us back to "harm" - XP pots take away explorer and crafting achievements.

Edit: and yes these were relatively early achievements but still achievements.

Convo_sl said:

That's a reach..

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I don't know. Abe's sorta right, there are people out there who will use any advantage to blaze through a game and then bitch when they're at endgame and there isn't enough to do.

Convo_sl said:

That's a reach..

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Why is it a reach? If anything paying for XP pots should be endorsed by the gamers. You can still play the way you want and enjoy leveling if that is your thing. It pumps money into the game insuring continued development. It also has the side effect of allowing people to catch up if they want to high level players.

Way too much walked 5 miles through the snow uphill both ways to school going on in here. I constantly here about the social aspect of these games being lacking. Well XP pots let new players who play the game catch up and actually play with you allowing you to socialize with them. Some people want things to be incredibly slow for everyone and for them to have an advantage because of the amount of play time they have.

As far as the race to cap is concerned. Those players will do anything they can to reach cap. So if that is something you have to do, then just take them money you saved from no SUB and no box cost and use it towards that.

Abefroman_sl said:

Well XP pots let new players who play the game catch up and actually play with you allowing you to socialize with them.

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Which is why I wouldn't oppose them two to three years after EQN is released. Just not at release.

tad10_sl said:

I don't know. Abe's sorta right, there are people out there who will use any advantage to blaze through a game and then bitch when they're at endgame and there isn't enough to do.

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It's funny that I always made fun of the journey shit I have heard people like yourself say all the time. I recently picked up TSW and have been playing it with someone and just taking my time enjoying the leveling. I'm really enjoying not rushing to cap and can see the enjoyment of it. I could just buy XP boosts and stuff like other people, but i choose not to and don't feel like I am at any disadvantage at all. They aren't winning by getting to cap faster. They are just rushing to boredom. I plan on taking my time with EQnext. Fuck I'm getting old.

heh good thing I'm not a gaming company... I'd sell pre-levelled characters... and bathe in money, cocaine, and poopsocker tears.

People want the journey as long as its forced on everyone else. If someone else can push hard and fast and get to the end quicker, then the "I enjoy the journey" people rush and then both cry there is nothing to do.

If you want to stay competitive in a f2p game, expect to shell out some $, otherwise sit back and go at your own pace and don't bitch at those that do spend the $.

I have waited for this game for over a decade... If I am anywhere near first to max level I am gonna be fucking pissed, and I intend to play the shit out of it.

The way I look at it, is I want a world. I want to be thrown into a situation, given a set of tools based off of class/race/etc. and be told to deal with shit. Let it end there.

zzeris_sl said:

The real issue is that you think your type of gaming deserves precedence over other players type of gaming.

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pot, kettle, etc.

Adjust to cash shop? Personally I've played both f2p and b2p exactly the same as sub games.