EQ Never

Sylas

Sylas

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No, what I describe is what GW2's combat was supposed to be. And, for most classes, is. You have your auto-attack, then a bunch of situational abilities (notably dodge) on cooldown/short-term resource. Press 1, then react using 2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0 depending on what's needed. Alas, a lot of classes still have a "plain DPS" button or two (or more) where you don't have to think: press them when they come off cooldown.
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Yeah way too many abilities, too much like whack-a-mole. Don't really see how that's "reaction" based unless you're expected to stare at your UI and watch for things to light up. Any game that expects you to hit the "0" key isn't really designed to need dodge.

Neverwinter has auto-attack (hold down left mouse) freeing your hand to stay on WASD because movement is absolutely vital in the game. There is a second, different auto-attack on right mouse which is used when situationally appropriate.

It also has dodge (double tap in any direction, or shift+direction key) on short-term resource (stamina) and then situational abilities, things like stun, daze, prone, charge, etc, on Q, E, R. (again because movement is important). special attacks on 1 or 2. Potions on 3-5. Tab is a unique class ability (for rogues, enter stealth, for clerics, toggle in and out of Divinity mode, etc). All in all about 7 keys all within reach of WASD. You have far more abilities than hotkeys thus you must choose the best setup for the situation (it's common to switch setups between trash and bosses). With limited abilities it's all muscle memory, you never look at your UI only the fights and the environment.

edit: found another gem:
The success of EVE would suggest that this type of emergent gameplay is popular and could be expanded into PvE focused game, at least, from a niche perspective.
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How so? Eve is what it is purely because it's a pvp game. Nothing about it suggests that an Eve style game could work as a PVE focused game, rather it indicates the opposite is true.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Golden Baronet of the Realm
7,774
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I never felt gw2 had too many abilities. Diversity was the issue in gw2. I also don't understand people in gw2 that didn't redo your keybinds. If you left the "0" ability on "0," you're an idiot. Perhaps not relevant but a thought stemming from talking to a friend who played with me in gw2.

I think gw2 had almost the right number of abilities but there was a distinct lack of flavor.
 
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althuna_sl

shitlord
141
0
Gavinrad_sl said:
That middle ground was vanilla WoW.
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I suppse it depends where in the middle you go. I would say WoW was always on the extremely simple end.

Personally I never liked vanilla wow. It was so dumbed down, the mobs would die with just autoattack, there was nothing aggro until you were like level 20 or something, the constant questing was annoying, loot was pointless, i got upgrades every minute, the McDungeons, the combat was super easy and you never needed a group outdoors, the death penalty was so stupid it was patronising, there was no real travelling, combat even in dungeons was just 12345 spamming buttons, and the fluffy cow people and graphics made me feel like i was in a cartoon for 8 year olds.

I hated Wow, I always hated it even at release.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Sylas_sl said:
Yeah way too many abilities, too much like whack-a-mole. Don't really see how that's "reaction" based unless you're expected to stare at your UI and watch for things to light up. Any game that expects you to hit the "0" key isn't really designed to need dodge.
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That's a pretty stupid statement. For most intent and purposes, NWO and GW2 combat were the same in terms of abilities, only that in NWO you had to mash your autoattack key, or at least keep the mouse button for it pressed, while it was autocast in GW2, and that there were a whooping THREE more abilities in GW2 than in NWO(3 encounters, 1 secondary at will, 2 daillies instead of 4weapon skills excluding autoattack, 1heal, 1 ulti, 3utility). If you can't find 3 keys to bind that are close to wasd or esdf that's pretty sad.

Neither was only reactive abilities, both of them had abilities you spammed on cooldown when in combat and very few situational skills, most of which had to be edged out due to lack of barspace anyway. NWO especially, a lot of the situational encounters were simply not used when you could use a damage one instead, unless you were fighting a specific encounter(boss and such) where you knew it'd be useful. If anything GW2 has the better use for situational abilities since you could carry a 2nd weapon set which could be used entirely for situational purposes where you'd swap to it, cast whatever you wanted, then swap back.

Main difference between the 2 combat is the targetting system, since NWO was FPS style targetting while GW2 was traditional mmo targetting.
 
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althuna_sl

shitlord
141
0
I love ground targeted spells! (wish there were different shapes though). Other than that, GW2 was worthless to me. NWN more or less the same.
 
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Bellringer_sl

shitlord
387
0
Meh. Ground targeted spells (like Neverwinter) makes shit too easy imo. Just let mobs do an animation prior to an ability. I don't need some noob shit on the ground to let me know its going to happen, let me figure it out through trial and error.
 
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althuna_sl

shitlord
141
0
No I mean for the players. Like if you can aim a fireball on the ground and it fires when theres a bunch of mobs there, cool. If you miss, tough crap. And lightning storms and frozen slippy ground or whatever, maybe grease which lowers mobs dex, and if you use fire it goes on fire like in Dragon Age. I also like in EQ there was some powerful mage nukes but they had to have a clear line of sight to the mob or it missed.

As for mobs doing it, yes... i dont wannna see it i just want to react. Like in TSW they are always doing those big white circles and you have to dive out the way. I love the idea that you have to react to things but the mobs already do animations to show you, there doesnt need to be the white shit on the ground too.

It also shouldn't be so often or it just becomes DDR. Maybe just on certain nameds or raids, they spit venom or something and you dont step in it.
 
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Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
Bellringer_sl said:
Meh. Ground targeted spells (like Neverwinter) makes shit too easy imo. Just let mobs do an animation prior to an ability. I don't need some noob shit on the ground to let me know its going to happen, let me figure it out through trial and error.
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I believe he meant his ground targeted spells, could be wrong though.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
althuna_sl said:
I suppse it depends where in the middle you go. I would say WoW was always on the extremely simple end.

Personally I never liked vanilla wow. It was so dumbed down, the mobs would die with just autoattack, there was nothing aggro until you were like level 20 or something, the constant questing was annoying, loot was pointless, i got upgrades every minute, the McDungeons, the combat was super easy and you never needed a group outdoors, the death penalty was so stupid it was patronising, there was no real travelling, combat even in dungeons was just 12345 spamming buttons, and the fluffy cow people and graphics made me feel like i was in a cartoon for 8 year olds.

I hated Wow, I always hated it even at release.
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Meh, sounds exaggerated. Hard to believe that what you describe was your actual experience in 2004. I guess that the case for most posts here including mine, but you overdo it.
 
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althuna_sl

shitlord
141
0
It does? Well I came straight from EQ to WoW so it did feel totally miles apart.


As for dial up combat - you could still make slower based tactical combat but make it more modern. That's what I hope EQ Next will be. EQ's combat was great it was just old and low budget. But the pace of it was tactical and interesting.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
althuna_sl said:
It does? Well I came straight from EQ to WoW so it did feel totally miles apart.


As for dial up combat - you could still make slower based tactical combat but make it more modern. That's what I hope EQ Next will be. EQ's combat was great it was just old and low budget. But the pace of it was tactical and interesting.
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Most left straight from EQ but at the time I don't see how you couldn't enjoy the ride a little bit in WoW. It was engaging. Just lost it's appeal pretty fast
 
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rolx_sl

shitlord
561
0
So much drama going on p99 right now. Hackers getting banned ddos server everyday can't even play. GM's being accused of making items for RMT. Its getting wild. Can't even play for last 4 days, check P99 forums you cant even access because the servers are getting attacked. They banned the wrong hacker?
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Sylas_sl said:
Neverwinter has auto-attack (hold down left mouse) freeing your hand to stay on WASD because movement is absolutely vital in the game. There is a second, different auto-attack on right mouse which is used when situationally appropriate..
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Having to hold down the left mouse button is not an auto-attack.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Ambiturner_sl said:
Combat designed to work with dial up internet is the way God intended.
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Your sarcasm is wasted as an efficiently written MMORPG should work with dial up internet. Maybe there'll be some issues in a 72 man raid but all the heavy data (textures, models, etc.) should be on your computer so only location data and the like should be going back and forth.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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tad10_sl said:
Having to hold down the left mouse button is not an auto-attack.
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...you're beginning to sound a bit militant and crazy dude... Holding down left mouse is pretty damned close to an auto attack (unless you are a clicker)
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Quaid_sl said:
...you're beginning to sound a bit militant and crazy dude... Holding down left mouse is pretty damned close to an auto attack (unless you are a clicker)
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How is continuously holding a mouse button down for the entirety of a combat in anyway comparable to pressing one key one time for auto-attack for the entirety of a combat?
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Because you generally don't do anything w/ Lmouse anyway except click spells (and I doubt you are bad at games). It's not so far of a stretch to just have to hold it down to attack... Barely noticeable.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Quaid_sl said:
...you're beginning to sound a bit militant and crazy dude... Holding down left mouse is pretty damned close to an auto attack (unless you are a clicker)
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Well it's not an autoattack cause it actually exclusive with skills and you still have to keep something pressed. If you keep it pressed all the time, which you pretty much do, there is no reason you have to press it in the first place. It's just a skill with no cooldown.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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No it's not an auto attack, but in spirit it's pretty damned close. A barely noticeable action that allows you to do baseline dps while giving you full control over your skills with minimal timing required... Sounds about right to me.
 
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