EQ Never

JordanJax_sl · Jul 28, 2013

I like most of what Flip had to say but FTP just kills it for me. FTP invariably turns into PTW...it just does. And I don't want to invest my time in a game where my achievements will eventually be marginalized by crap you can buy in a cash shop.

Plus, it really just destroys the..."believability" of the world for me. It goes from being a true mmorpg where everything you do has consequences and everything you have was earned through your actions in the game to... just another lame video game.

Bummer. Hope TESO somehow comes through.

Iadien · Jul 28, 2013

Ayeshala_sl said:
Let's hope your friend isn't getting anywhere near the full picture because there is ZERO "NEXT" in there.

I hope so. Also, a lot of that information has been hinted at in interviews with Smed and Georgeson, panels, plus the painting.

Races and factions - like EQ1 there will be race/class restrictions. Barbarians for example can be the usual classes (Warrior, Bezerkers (or whatever they call the melee DPS class, Shaman). Different starting stats per race and racial abilities (no clue if the racials are meaningful).If that Barbarian chooses and wants to become an Enchanter, he can go raise his faction with a race that has that class. It won't be an easy ordeal and will take effort.At the time of my info, factions could be individually raised. So a high elf could raise their faction and eventually be accepted by the dark elves but at the cost of their own city/race faction.

Georgeson mentioned something like this at PAX East:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...RaQvEg#t=2752s

The playable races I had confirmed are Human, High Elf, Dark Elf, Kerran, Kobold, Ogre, Troll. Again there are more than those playable those are just what I know is playable.I tried to get Ratonga and Iksar confirmation but don't have that yet.

I don't know when your source told you this stuff, but if it was before the painting was released and Kobolds were known, that helps validate these claims. Also, dwarves are in the painting, and are not listed, so that's interesting.

Norrath - the world is gigantic. No zones. The world is seamless.There will be instances in respect to some raids and dungeons but a lot of open dungeons a la EQ1. The extent to which we can damage the environment is still unknown. That's under wraps pretty tight so I'd imagine its damageable to a good extent.

I can't remember where it was said, but I remember hearing that Norrath is huge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...3j-7yz3I#t=45s

Spells - no more spell trainers. Abilities are granted passively and the big ones have quests and trials attached to them.Enchanters will have to seek out people around the world to learn and study with. Wizards will have to find various tomes to study to learn to weave the strongest spells. Not sure on the spell weaving mechanic but they seemed to indicate the ability to create and discover new spells.So not every wizards spell book will be the same.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10...d-soes-future/

At GDC last week, you also talked about how quickly traditional MMO content is consumed and how that plays into your decision to adopt a philosophy toward emergent gameplay. The question comes up about how that affects the future of raid content -- something that takes a lot of time to design and is usually played by only a portion of the community. What are your thoughts on that?

We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions. But imagine the entire world as part of the interaction. Imagine seasons changing.Imagine if you're a Druid and you need to literally seek out reagents for your spells or worship your deity in a glade somewhere off in the wilderness, but you don't know where.Or image forests growing back after they're burned to the ground by invading forces. What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it.

Misc -this game will be FTP.It will have a cash shop. SOE will make the world, dungeons, raids as usual. Their version of emergent gameplay is us creating content via their dungeon maker/player studio. Player made PVP battlegrounds. This player created content is all instanced not part of the persistent world. So is housing. Guild housing will be in from the get go as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVIII...ailpage#t=282s

Beta - it's already in friends and family alpha/beta. After SOE live, beta will begin early Aug/late Sept. they are trying to launch Nov/Dec. the latest this game will launch is Feb/March time frame. They are much farther along then they let on and that's part of their surprise.

This is something I believed would happen. Georgeson has stated that they do not want to show off the game until they have a huge lead and are able to get the game out before their competitors can copy the ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVIII...etailpage&t=29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...-MEgLXKXs&t=59

Lithose · Jul 28, 2013

Convo_sl said:
I always enjoy your post but why WoW when it's obviously they took from EQ and VG? Nothing in there jumps at you and says that's from WoW.. All those things existed in some form in EQ and VG.

WoW took from EQ and VG as well. WoW is also the current king, so when I talk about PvE clones, I generally just say "WoW" as that's the easiest expression of "this game is looks like a boring and derivative theme park". You could replace WoW with EQ, meh, doesn't really matter.

Almost nothing in that announcement, except instanced housing and player dungeons, and maybe some open land dungeons (And even that was "a few") can't be said about any other WoW clone.Crafting will be meaningful...Literallyeverygame says that.The world is huge!Okay, again, every game says that.You'll learn your spells from trials and quests!Okay...that's probably developer speak for you'll have to travel to the warrior conclave and do a fetch quest to learn whirlwind 001--much like in WoW vanilla.

Like I mentioned, it does depend on how those things are implemented--but what was said was absolutely no different than the catch phrases for every other MMO WoW clone that's been done since WoW killed EQ. I mean, could it be different? Sure. But there was no meat in those statements to make anyone think it would be different..and the reliance on instanced housing ect, really leads me to believe they don't really have the desire to have players form a world, but rather just want an MMO version of battlefield where players can destroy forest001 for 20 minutes during a fight and that will be new and exciting!

Soygen · Jul 28, 2013

JordanJax_sl said:
I like most of what Flip had to say but FTP just kills it for me. FTP invariably turns into PTW...it just does. And I don't want to invest my time in a game where my achievements will eventually be marginalized by crap you can buy in a cash shop.

Plus, it really just destroys the..."believability" of the world for me. It goes from being a true mmorpg where everything you do has consequences and everything you have was earned through your actions in the game to... just another lame video game.

Bummer. Hope TESO somehow comes through.

This just isn't true. EQ1 is FTP and you aren't doing anything in the cash shop that marginalizes end game content(both group and raid). There are tons of ways to implement FTP and many of them don't have 'pay to win'. Until they announce the real details of the payment plan, it doesn't make sense to cry about the sky falling. In fact, the FTP is the last thing I'm worried about. The gameplay concerns me far more, coming from SOE.

Convo · Jul 28, 2013

Just to blow it off as a WoW clone is unfair when it's more fair to say EQ/VG clone but I digress as its really over analyzing.

Lets wait till Friday as I think there will be plenty more info to come.

Pretty much Soygen. From what I understand the cash shop isn't suppose to effect the core game in anyway.. Maybe Flip can clear that up?

Lithose · Jul 28, 2013

Convo_sl said:
Just to blow it off as a WoW clone is unfair when it's more fair to say EQ/VG clone but I digress as its really over analyzing.

The big thing for me is instanced housing. That really screams "this will not be a sandbox". Players literally owning parts of the world, and forming centers for trade and commerce, is really, important for a sandbox. Youcanhave sandboxy elements without that...But it will really depend on how everything is implemented. However, the moment a developer instances housing? It makes it seem like they really want to control how the land is shaped and how it's used. And that's fine, but because of what Smed said, I was really not looking forward to that particulartypeof game.

Combine that with the very generic descriptions of systems (That every MMO says), and my pickle is less than tickled. But yeah, there could be some massive innovation in how those bland systems are done--sure, not going to stop paying attention. Who knows Storybricks could be so good that it's mind blowing. But my anticipation meter just went down a few factors because it sounds like it's a different type of game than what was hinted at.

Big Flex · Jul 28, 2013

Lithose_sl said:
The big thing for me is instanced housing. That really screams "this will not be a sandbox". Players literally owning parts of the world, and forming centers for trade and commerce, is really, important for a sandbox. Youcanhave sandboxy elements without that...But it will really depend on how everything is implemented. However, the moment a developer instances housing? It makes it seem like they really want to control how the land is shaped and how it's used. And that's fine, but because of what Smed said, I was really not looking forward to that particulartypeof game.

Combine that with the very generic descriptions of systems (That every MMO says), and my pickle is less than tickled. But yeah, there could be some massive innovation in how those bland systems are done--sure, not going to stop paying attention. Who knows Storybricks could be so good that it's mind blowing. But my anticipation meter just went down a few factors because it sounds like it's a different type of game than what was hinted at.

I agree, one of the best parts of UO was player housing, shop ownership, and in my case, attempting to pickpocket house keys or commit home invasions. THAT is user generated content.

Convo · Jul 28, 2013

Lithose_sl said:
The big thing for me is instanced housing. That really screams "this will not be a sandbox". Players literally owning parts of the world, and forming centers for trade and commerce, is really, important for a sandbox. Youcanhave sandboxy elements without that...But it will really depend on how everything is implemented. However, the moment a developer instances housing? It makes it seem like they really want to control how the land is shaped and how it's used. And that's fine, but because of what Smed said, I was really not looking forward to that particulartypeof game.

Combine that with the very generic descriptions of systems (That every MMO says), and my pickle is less than tickled. But yeah, there could be some massive innovation in how those bland systems are done--sure, not going to stop paying attention. Who knows Storybricks could be so good that it's mind blowing. But my anticipation meter just went down a few factors because it sounds like it's a different type of game than what was hinted at.

I can understand that. I was hoping the housing and trading would be tied together. One big Bazaar where houses had storefronts attached to them built minecraft style with limits of a deed plus mobile access for phone/pads located in different areas of the world. Also some community buildings that players can work on together. I'm not a huge housing guy so maybe that's why it doesn't bother me that it's off in it's own world but if they can make it more than just instance housing.. I think it can work. I was hoping instance towns with the intent to trade..

Grim1 · Jul 28, 2013

I liked EQ2's housing, it was instanced. Although, I assumed they would go for Vanguard's open world type, with plot buying, etc.

/shrug Never really cared about housing anyways. But I was curious how they would implement it into their "sandbox" claim. Instancing seems a bit counter intuitive.

tad10 · Jul 28, 2013

Convo_sl said:
Because he speculated that EQN would be this crazy EvE like PvP driven game and argued with people like me when we told him he was wrong.. Now he knows he's wrong and instead of realizing the market could use a solid PvE driven "core" game he's trashes it without knowing all the details of the PvP. I love what Flip posted. Can't wait to see what else is in it.

Pretty serious head fake by smed if true. Talk up sandbox and eve and deliver indistinguishable wow clone instanced pvp. Won't go as far as flunkle and write it off but instanced player content is not a sandbox. We will see on 2nd.

Convo · Jul 28, 2013

tad10_sl said:
Pretty serious head fake by smed if true. Talk up sandbox and eve and deliver indistinguishable wow clone instanced pvp. Won't go as far as funkle and write it off but instanced player content is not a sandbox. We will see on 2nd.

If there is PvP there is a very good chance there will be full out PvP servers. I don't think making every server full out EvE like PvP is a good idea TBH. Not that I know much about EvE but if SoE is going to cast a wide net things need to be this way. Like you said.. let's see what they do. For all we know the PvP instances will be the only places you can harvest..

Grumpus · Jul 28, 2013

I might get linched for this but this needs to be on PS4. I haven't been keeping up with this thread much since it moves so fast. Has anything to that effect been announced or hinted at?

Rezz · Jul 28, 2013

PVP servers/instances = Fine! Resources only showing up in contested areas in a statistically favorable outcome of terrible PVP = Bad! Personally, I'm hoping that the -only- way PVP is enabled on normal servers is through the player made crap.

gogojira_sl · Jul 28, 2013

Grumpus_sl said:
I might get linched for this but this needs to be on PS4. I haven't been keeping up with this thread much since it moves so fast. Has anything to that effect been announced or hinted at?

Hinted at to the point of almost being confirmed. It will be eventually, count on that. Only predictions on my part, but a very, very easy one.

Randin · Jul 28, 2013

A lot of Flip's stuff sounds pretty good, but having housing and all other player-created content be instanced is very disappointing, and frankly a little bizarre for a game that's labeling itself a sandbox.

Hopefully it's an incomplete picture of the game's sandbox elements, but I guess we'll see on Friday.

Caeden · Jul 28, 2013

Flipmode_sl said:
Here's what I know:

Races and factions - like EQ1 there will be race/class restrictions. Barbarians for example can be the usual classes (Warrior, Bezerkers (or whatever they call the melee DPS class, Shaman). Different starting stats per race and racial abilities (no clue if the racials are meaningful). If that Barbarian chooses and wants to become an Enchanter, he can go raise his faction with a race that has that class. It won't be an easy ordeal and will take effort. At the time of my info, factions could be individually raised. So a high elf could raise their faction and eventually be accepted by the dark elves but at the cost of their own city/race faction.

The classes I've had confirmed are Warrior, Cleric, Shaman, Wizard, Enchanter, Ranger, Druid, Rogue. There are more, but that was all I know of at this moment.

The playable races I had confirmed are Human, High Elf, Dark Elf, Kerran, Kobold, Ogre, Troll. Again there are more than those playable those are just what I know is playable. I tried to get Ratonga and Iksar confirmation but don't have that yet.

Norrath - the world is gigantic. No zones. The world is seamless. There will be instances in respect to some raids and dungeons but a lot of open dungeons a la EQ1. The extent to which we can damage the environment is still unknown. That's under wraps pretty tight so I'd imagine its damageable to a good extent.

Spells - no more spell trainers. Abilities are granted passively and the big ones have quests and trials attached to them. Enchanters will have to seek out people around the world to learn and study with. Wizards will have to find various tomes to study to learn to weave the strongest spells. Not sure on the spell weaving mechanic but they seemed to indicate the ability to create and discover new spells. So not every wizards spell book will be the same.

Combat - there will be hotbars. It will NOT be like EQ2s combat abortion. That's about all I know on that. I've pressed for details but that info is locked down tight. Tad could well be right here I concede but if I had to guess, it'll be action based combat with a limited skill set load out.

Crafting - it is in the game, it is interdependent and its supposedly more meaning than they've ever made it. Players will be able to make useful and sought after gear and stuff at all levels. Raid/Dungeon crafting drops confirmed but no mechanics specifics.

Misc - this game will be FTP. It will have a cash shop. SOE will make the world, dungeons, raids as usual. Their version of emergent gameplay is us creating content via their dungeon maker/player studio. Player made PVP battlegrounds. This player created content is all instanced not part of the persistent world. So is housing. Guild housing will be in from the get go as well.

Beta - it's already in friends and family alpha/beta. After SOE live, beta will begin early Aug/late Sept. they are trying to launch Nov/Dec. the latest this game will launch is Feb/March time frame. They are much farther along then they let on and that's part of their surprise.

Minus a detail here or there, that's all I got. Take it for what it's worth to you.

I fail to see anything revolutionary there. And I tend to think Flip seems an honest down-to-earth poster.

Sounds like a class system that is ripped from FFXIV mixed with some GW2 if the whole "weapons make the class" thing is true. I hope not because that REALLY makes it sound like classes are tied to one type of weapon or maybe a subclass of weapons. Races, meh....as long as they take races and make them look evolutionaryily distinct is all I care about. Hopefully we get racial based starting areas rather than class based. Something to pull you in.

Love the concept of finding spells via quests. But I agree with another that said this sounds like WoW quests to get Imps, certain buff levels, etc. which weren't much more than standard quests. Could be very WoW-cloneish. Also, the whole uninstanced/instanced pve content could come off not being any better than SWTOR's Heroic areas. Those fell fucking flat.

Crafting being interdependent sounds like a case where crafted consumables will be needed to craft end-use pieces. Like that you can get good gear from crafting.

The player made stuff sounds like this will be their solution to hoping everyone doesn't eat through content too fast, but it sounds like a shitty version of what GW2 ended up being. Be interesting to see what they have in store for events, updates, etc. and their permanency. It seems like GW2 is more like MMO Holiday The Game sometimes.

tad10 · Jul 28, 2013

Convo_sl said:
If there is PvP there is a very good chance there will be full out PvP servers. I don't think making every server full out EvE like PvP is a good idea TBH. Not that I know much about EvE but if SoE is going to cast a wide net things need to be this way. Like you said.. let's see what they do. For all we know the PvP instances will be the only places you can harvest..

What @Randin said. A PvE Sandbox without PvP of any sort is fine and EQ1ish; a Sandbox with full on or EVElight PvP is also fine. But any type of instanced PvP is retarded - especially in the age of the MOBA. It's not going to attract any players who like that sort of thing (they can just play LoL) it isn't going to appease the SZ/RZ/TZ/VA/UO/DAOC/EVE players out there they want in-world PvP of some sort and it isn't at all Nexty.

I stand by my earlier statement about Flip and Ut. No dev who is talking to anyone is "in the room".

Convo · Jul 28, 2013

I'd like to add in this is..it's semi speculation but the quest system will be more like EQ. Where you actually seek out the quest by talking to NPC's.. No more indicators. I'm sure there will be some kill/collect stuff in there but l overall the quest will be more more meaningful. Thus ending in an ability or something..

@Tad.. your argument only holds weight if there are not dedicated PvP servers with full out PvP. If there are the PvP stuff on the PvE servers is just a bonus. but forcing everyone to PvP in the world? I don't think that flies overall. Essentially the PvP servers will be as Sandbox as the games get. The PvE servers will obviously be less sandboxy but provide a home of those who don't care to PvP thus casting a wider net..

tad10 · Jul 28, 2013

Convo_sl said:
I'd like to add in this is..it's semi speculation but the quest system will be more like EQ.

Quest system is all-storybricks all-the-time.

@Tad.. your argument only holds weight if there are not dedicated PvP servers with full out PvP. If there are the PvP stuff on the PvE servers is just a bonus. but forcing everyone to PvP in the world? I don't think that flies overall.

Nope. Instanced PvP is a wasteland not a bonus. I'm totally fine with no PvP at all (EQ1) but if you're going to have PvP in a game it needs to have something to do with the game, not off in a corner. Completely unsandboxy.

Caeden · Jul 28, 2013

tad10_sl said:
What @Randin said. A PvE Sandbox without PvP of any sort is fine and EQ1ish; a Sandbox with full on or EVElight PvP is also fine. But any type of instanced PvP is retarded - especially in the age of the MOBA. It's not going to attract any players who like that sort of thing (they can just play LoL) it isn't going to appease the SZ/RZ/TZ/VA/UO/DAOC/EVE players out there they want in-world PvP of some sort and it isn't at all Nexty.

I stand by my earlier statement about Flip and Ut. No dev who is talking to anyone is "in the room".

Working at a large engineering-based tech company, I really have a VERY hard time believing this room is legitimately "locked" and folks don't know. Especially in a relatively small section like SoE. I've worked on MANY confidential development projects as an engineer and the fact is engineers and designers like to brag and show off. Its in our nature. I would always struggle to find someone who DIDN'T know what was going on in said projects despite it being a secret. Now they may be missing some details, but the big picture items that Flip and UT went on about would probably be common knowledge. I'd be more inclined to believe they don't know some very detailed specifics. Everyone in that fucking office knows exactly what's in EQN from a high level.

The all quests is all storybricks is speculation. That could just be part of the quest system. It could be mixed with EQ1 or WoW. I have a hard time believing that they'd build storybricks for going to learn Megafireball for your Wizard whereas if you were working to save some town somewhere, I'd see Storybricks playing a key role.

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