EQ Never

J

Jarnin_sl

shitlord
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Muligan_sl said:
What is wrong with EQ? Why are they trying so hard to answer so many meaningless questions and modify portions of the game that are engraved in the legacy of EQ? Maybe i'm missing something and I understand what is and is not popular today but what are they shooting for with this game?
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They're shooting to make a game that will take over the market, just like they did in 1999. EQ had 5 great years, and then the franchise started going downhill after WoW came out. Since then every studio out there has been trying to emulate WoW's success and, for the most part, has not succeeded. Hell, SOE made massive changes to EQ, EQ2 and Star Wars Galaxies to try and compete with WoW, and failed. Then, with EQ3, they tried it again, TWICE, and finally came to the conclusion that trying to beat WoW at their game wasn't going to work. WoW is still the most popular theme park fantasy MMORPG in the world, so why even try to compete with that? Instead, go the opposite route. WoW is a themepark? Make EQNext a sandbox. WoW has static environments and quests? EQNext will go with destrucibility and dynamic questing. The point is, EQNext is going to try to compete with WoW bynot being yet another WoW clone.

On the flipside, EQ and EQ2 aren't going anywhere, and SOE doesn't want to build a new EQ game that would directly compete with their existing line-up. They don't want players who have been perfectly happy playing EQ or EQ2 to feel forced to leave those games and move to EQNext thinking their game is going to be shut down, so that's another reason to make EQNext as different from EQ and EQ2 as they can. And, since EQNext is such a departure from EQ and EQ2, they figured, "why not do a complete reboot?"

As for the lore, that was some of EQ's best and worse features. It was interesting, if you paid attention, but most players didn't give a shit about it. And the pantheon they created for EQ, after 18 expansions, has become so bloated and disjointed that it no longer really makes any sense. I mean, the Planes of Power ended up having a lesser demi-goddess being more powerful than all other gods combined, and that was only 4 expansions in. The loreneededa reboot.

And who knows, Innoruuk and all the other "gods" they're removing might come back in some fashion. Remember, the underlying theme of EQ has always been about the quest to become god-like. I've always taken the position that all the gods in EQ were mortals at one point, stumbled on power, and became the god-like beings we know and love. Zebuxoruk is a perfect example, as is Mayong Mistmoore. So Maybe Innoruuk will play a part, not as a deity, but as a powerful being who is trying to become a deity.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Jarnin_sl said:
They're shooting to make a game that will take over the market, just like they did in 1999. EQ had 5 great years, and then the franchise started going downhill after WoW came out. Since then every studio out there has been trying to emulate WoW's success and, for the most part, has not succeeded. Hell, SOE made massive changes to EQ, EQ2 and Star Wars Galaxies to try and compete with WoW, and failed. Then, with EQ3, they tried it again, TWICE, and finally came to the conclusion that trying to beat WoW at their game wasn't going to work. WoW is still the most popular theme park fantasy MMORPG in the world, so why even try to compete with that? Instead, go the opposite route. WoW is a themepark? Make EQNext a sandbox. WoW has static environments and quests? EQNext will go with destrucibility and dynamic questing. The point is, EQNext is going to try to compete with WoW bynot being yet another WoW clone.

On the flipside, EQ and EQ2 aren't going anywhere, and SOE doesn't want to build a new EQ game that would directly compete with their existing line-up. They don't want players who have been perfectly happy playing EQ or EQ2 to feel forced to leave those games and move to EQNext thinking their game is going to be shut down, so that's another reason to make EQNext as different from EQ and EQ2 as they can. And, since EQNext is such a departure from EQ and EQ2, they figured, "why not do a complete reboot?"

As for the lore, that was some of EQ's best and worse features. It was interesting, if you paid attention, but most players didn't give a shit about it. And the pantheon they created for EQ, after 18 expansions, has become so bloated and disjointed that it no longer really makes any sense. I mean, the Planes of Power ended up having a lesser demi-goddess being more powerful than all other gods combined, and that was only 4 expansions in. The loreneededa reboot.

And who knows, Innoruuk and all the other "gods" they're removing might come back in some fashion. Remember, the underlying theme of EQ has always been about the quest to become god-like. I've always taken the position that all the gods in EQ were mortals at one point, stumbled on power, and became the god-like beings we know and love. Zebuxoruk is a perfect example, as is Mayong Mistmoore. So Maybe Innoruuk will play a part, not as a deity, but as a powerful being who is trying to become a deity.
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Great post and all of this has been said before. The lore was a shitty mess after 18 expansions but anyone that quit in 2004 or earlier would have no clue. They explained what they were going for and just like the Star Trek fanatics, you either go with the new direction, or sit back and watch reruns, etc. As you mentioned though, nothing is set in stone for a game that isn't close to release. Expansions could do anything and I am far happier seeing a more realistic idea of good/evil than what they had 15 years ago. This is a REBOOT. This game will have Storybricks. I have complete faith that the story coming out...will be a whole lot better than what was shipped before. Shit, EQ had space cats, fungus people, tons of dieties, and a lot of other really shitty ideas early much less the garbage later.
 
Mr Creed

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zzeris_sl said:
Great post and all of this has been said before. The lore was a shitty mess after 18 expansions but anyone that quit in 2004 or earlier would have no clue. They explained what they were going for and just like the Star Trek fanatics, you either go with the new direction, or sit back and watch reruns, etc. As you mentioned though, nothing is set in stone for a game that isn't close to release. Expansions could do anything and I am far happier seeing a more realistic idea of good/evil than what they had 15 years ago. This is a REBOOT. This game will have Storybricks. I have complete faith that the story coming out...will be a whole lot better than what was shipped before. Shit, EQ had space cats, fungus people, tons of dieties, and a lot of other really shitty ideas early much less the garbage later.
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Reboots are fine, the EQ franchise probably needs one. I hope you can agree that there are great reboots and shitty reboots out there? We dont know much, but what we know points towards shitty reboot. This looks like the new Karate Kid, not like Batman. Opinions may vary.

Franchise/Lore aside the game itself looks promising and hopefully shakes up this stagnant industry, I'm looking forward to it despite the EQ tag and not because of it.
 
Lleauaric

Lleauaric

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Malakriss_sl said:
This is still copying Blizzard's make shit up as you go along model. Didn't work out so well for the Starcraft 2 story.
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Making shit up as you go along isnt bad unless the writers are bad. Lore is what it is, all you need is rough outlines and contours. You think Erikson or Martin didnt/isnt making shit up as they go along? Of course they are. Do they have a plan for Inny and the old gods? Maybe, maybe not, but they certainly arent going to box themselves into anything.
 
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Jarnin_sl

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gogojira_sl said:
Moorgard basically hinted that those gods aren't dead yet, even if they haven't been part of the lore so far.This responsewas directly tied to Innoruuk.
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Yeah, that's what I was expecting. In the original EQ lore, Inny didn't haveanyinfluence on Norrath until he kidnapped the Elven king and queen from Takish-Hiz and changed them into evil bastards, which was supposed to take place over a span of 300 years. He then dumps them back in their city where they form a secret cult that worships him, and start treating others like shit. This seems to correspond perfectly with the lore EQNext is releasing.

The Takish turned evil, and this prompts the war with the dragons. When the spire in Takish-Hiz explodes, the Takish lose their connection to "high magic" which causes their downfall and results in the formation of the Combine empire. It also seems that the spire explosion in Takish-Hiz is directly responsible for the creation of Ashfang, the precursor to the Desert of Ro. If the elves lost their connection to "high magic", it kinda makes sense why they couldn't keep their lands green and fertile. In EQ this was blamed on Solusek Ro changing the landscape, but the cause of the spire explosion in EQNext is still unknown.

Then you have the Teir'dal. Towards the end of the Dragon wars, they're swept away through a portal to an unknown location (whose description seems awfully similar to the Plane of Hate, minus the city of Rancor). In the original EQ lore, they were led by a priest of Innoruuk into the Underfoot so they could escape persecution. In that lore, it was the forces of Tunare chasing them. In EQNext, it's the dragons. Slight change, same results. When they return to Norrath, they have blue skin and horns. Why horns?Because Innoruuk has horns. Slight change, similar results.

I'm not concerned about the changes to the lore because it all seems to be coming together in the same way. They're expanding on the history of Norrath, making minor changes that seem to ultimately have the same results as they did in EQ. It's just that pieces of the puzzle are a little different than before.
 
popsicledeath

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Lleauaric_sl said:
Making shit up as you go along isnt bad unless the writers are bad. Lore is what it is, all you need is rough outlines and contours. You think Erikson or Martin didnt/isnt making shit up as they go along? Of course they are. Do they have a plan for Inny and the old gods? Maybe, maybe not, but they certainly arent going to box themselves into anything.
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Exactly! All good writers just make shit up on the fly because they've just got so much talent stories and ideas just pour from their soul without much effort or forethought. Just like I'm pretty sure all musicians just make the songs up as they go, too, right? RIGHT?!

Yeah. Pretty sure the 'writers' on EQN are hacks, and still have a plan they'll execute as best they can like all writers/creators do if they want even half a chance at not producing bullshit nobody will believe.

Trying to stay away from this abomination of a thread, but that was some of the stupidest forum-genius shit I've ever seen.
 
Randin

Randin

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Well, as I understand it, the dark elves' horns and blue-black skin will probably have something to do with the horned, blue-black dragon that follows them through the portal.

But still, like I've said before, I halfway expect that Inny and Cazic will end up being the devils of the Seraph religion in EQN, or something along those lines.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Creed,
*
I agree there are good and shitty reboots. I think it will work out but plenty of time to be wrong.
 
J

Jarnin_sl

shitlord
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Randin_sl said:
Well, as I understand it, the dark elves' horns and blue-black skin will probably have something to do with the horned, blue-black dragon that follows them through the portal.
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I thought this at first too. Then I read Last Stand of the Teir'dal again. Ithiosar is described as black, and there's no mention of him having horns. Then again, the dracoliche wasn't in the plane of hate, he was in the plane of Fear. Ashenbone drakes were in Hate.
 
Warrik

Warrik

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Jarnin_sl said:
They're shooting to make a game that will take over the market, just like they did in 1999. EQ had 5 great years, and then the franchise started going downhill after WoW came out....
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The franchise started its downward spiral before WoW came out. WoW was just the biggest hit to its sub base.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

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Well, when GoD didn't raise the level cap to 70 and the subsequent clusterfuck over focus effects not extending to 70 in OoW happened the people that didn't bail got to enjoy the "Everything summons now!" fest mixed with the joys of strict group requirements and a significantly reduced player base.
 
M

Mahulk_sl

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Jarnin_sl said:
They're shooting to make a game that will take over the market
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To me, the only way that could happen (EQ or anything else) would be to provide players with a wide variety of very different rulesets to appeal every kind of gamer. Some for solo gameplay, other for massive raiding, some with very light penalties, others with harsh ones. Basically, make a flexible game core and adapt it to different playstyles. Heck, bonus points for going the extra miles and providing tools to the playerbase to create their own version(s) of the game by manipulating some variables and/or scripts. To me, the only way to even get close to a WoW-like success is to develop a game that is effectively multiple related games using the same core.

Infos so far have been very broad and nothing points to EQ Next being like that, but given the fact that their main focus is the new technologies rather than precise mechanics and the McQuaid situation, one can't rule that out. I think it's very unlikely to happen, but if their goal truly is to take over WoW's spot or at least come close in terms of numbers, it's the only avenue that stands a chance IMHO.
 
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Vanrau_sl

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Jarnin_sl said:
On the flipside, EQ and EQ2 aren't going anywhere, and SOE doesn't want to build a new EQ game that would directly compete with their existing line-up. They don't want players who have been perfectly happy playing EQ or EQ2 to feel forced to leave those games and move to EQNext thinking their game is going to be shut down, so that's another reason to make EQNext as different from EQ and EQ2 as they can. And, since EQNext is such a departure from EQ and EQ2, they figured, "why not do a complete reboot?"
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The problem with SOE is they are taking resources away from all their games in order to make EQNext. I'm still playing EQ and we have felt a big hit in the past couple years due to the development of EQNext taking away our devs. We have seen less and less content being developed and old npc models and zones being mixed into "NEW" content as a means of not having to develop anything new.
 
zzeris

zzeris

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Vanrau_sl said:
The problem with SOE is they are taking resources away from all their games in order to make EQNext. I'm still playing EQ and we have felt a big hit in the past couple years due to the development of EQNext taking away our devs. We have seen less and less content being developed and old npc models and zones being mixed into "NEW" content as a means of not having to develop anything new.
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It's a 15 year old game. If you truly thought that they would put anything other than limited resources into it after playing EQ, or Vanguard...then I don't know what to say. Nobody will or would do that.

On to other topics, they want to allow people to create their own games from EQNL. That is the game they are trying to take over the market with. If they can create a game where people can make their own content, then they can make variations of EQN to fit different playerbases. IF EQNL takes off, I could see several variations of EQN being available over it's lifetime. Just like EQ Legends was around for a little while.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

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Jarnin_sl said:
They're shooting to make a game that will take over the market, just like they did in 1999. EQ had 5 great years, and then the franchise started going downhill after WoW came out. Since then every studio out there has been trying to emulate WoW's success and, for the most part, has not succeeded. Hell, SOE made massive changes to EQ, EQ2 and Star Wars Galaxies to try and compete with WoW, and failed. Then, with EQ3, they tried it again, TWICE, and finally came to the conclusion that trying to beat WoW at their game wasn't going to work. WoW is still the most popular theme park fantasy MMORPG in the world, so why even try to compete with that? Instead, go the opposite route. WoW is a themepark? Make EQNext a sandbox. WoW has static environments and quests? EQNext will go with destrucibility and dynamic questing. The point is, EQNext is going to try to compete with WoW bynot being yet another WoW clone.

On the flipside, EQ and EQ2 aren't going anywhere, and SOE doesn't want to build a new EQ game that would directly compete with their existing line-up. They don't want players who have been perfectly happy playing EQ or EQ2 to feel forced to leave those games and move to EQNext thinking their game is going to be shut down, so that's another reason to make EQNext as different from EQ and EQ2 as they can. And, since EQNext is such a departure from EQ and EQ2, they figured, "why not do a complete reboot?"

As for the lore, that was some of EQ's best and worse features. It was interesting, if you paid attention, but most players didn't give a shit about it. And the pantheon they created for EQ, after 18 expansions, has become so bloated and disjointed that it no longer really makes any sense. I mean, the Planes of Power ended up having a lesser demi-goddess being more powerful than all other gods combined, and that was only 4 expansions in. The loreneededa reboot.

And who knows, Innoruuk and all the other "gods" they're removing might come back in some fashion. Remember, the underlying theme of EQ has always been about the quest to become god-like. I've always taken the position that all the gods in EQ were mortals at one point, stumbled on power, and became the god-like beings we know and love. Zebuxoruk is a perfect example, as is Mayong Mistmoore. So Maybe Innoruuk will play a part, not as a deity, but as a powerful being who is trying to become a deity.
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This is true. I think SOE will let others try to target the old eq audience ( see brad thread ) and then "buy them" if successful ... why bother with targeting an audience you already have... build a stronger portfolio with a new title, capitalizing on the Eq name.... seems like what is happening.
 
Lleauaric

Lleauaric

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popsicledeath_sl said:
Exactly! All good writers just make shit up on the fly
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Listen you fuckstick. Nobody said on the fly. Im sorry you cant infer basic meaning so instead you add what your little retard brain wants, but since you need it explained to you like a 5 year old... They do a rough outline and fill in details when they need to.

because they've just got so much talent stories and ideas just pour from their soul without much effort or forethought.
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Again, as I guess you have no familiarity with the creative process of writing, (probably due to the fact you are an ignorant asshole) Every writer will tell you when they write, they place characters in situations and let the events write themselves. HOLY SHIT ITS FUCKING MAGIC. An author sometimes has no idea what the character is going to do when he sits down and begins writing.

Just like I'm pretty sure all musicians just make the songs up as they go, too, right? RIGHT?!
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YEAH. ITS CALLED JAZZ YOU FUCKING IDIOT. DO YOU EVEN MILES DAVIS? I know, since you are a borderline personality with the IQ of a chimp with down syndrome, that there is no chance that you understand the connection between improvisation and Jazz, which is pretty much the root of all modern music... but you'll just have to trust me, as I know that book learnin' stuff is difficult for you.

Trying to stay away from this abomination of a thread, but that was some of the stupidest forum-genius shit I've ever seen.
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Wow, aren't you just better than everyone! Try harder to stay away please bitch.

In conclusion,

Go fuck yourself.
 
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