EQ Never

Vitality_sl said:

So a Paladin can grab Lifetap or Siphon strength from the SK tree if it becomes the best Aggro Generating ability? I doubt it if their "Light vs Dark" faction system is a limiting factor.

I get that other games have been plagued with these issues, I'm in here trying to figure out what EQ:N is doing differently from other multi-class games. Right now it looks like ESO squished together with GW2 and FFXIV. All of which had class favoritism towards certain roles, which rendered other classes less desirable and nearly hardlocked people into re-rolling after they found out their "Warrior" couldn't tank bosses because it didnt have "Paladin Specific" cooldowns.
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TL;DR Let me build my own class with every skill in the game and instead decide my role with passives and supporting effects from the gear I choose. Refrain from locking me into a role based on my main class choice.[/B]

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A paladin couldnt do that - SKs dont even have a Lifetap that's a Dark Ravager ability (or was it Dark Knight?). In other words, obviously I cant answer that and doubt anyone at SOE could at this time. That's why I said you have more leeway then most other games, and not that you have absolute, unhindered free choice. At any rate within the game world you're hardly a paladin anymore once you use those skills. As you continue saying, you disagree with the notion of being excluded from some skills in rare cases based on the class shell and skills you are already using - we can agree to disagree at that point. Because it's one aspect of EQN that I am looking forward to.

Lleauaric_sl said:

They have given plenty of examples of how storybricks works. Since story bricks dictates how an NPC behaves, why wouldnt that extend to combat?

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Because I won't believe anyone until I see it actually working in a live demo. Even then, I would be skeptical because it was only a demo.

Draegan_sl said:

Because I won't believe anyone until I see it actually working in a live demo. Even then, I would be skeptical because it was only a demo.

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Yeah I can't get hyped up about Storybricks Combat when one of the guys said that "Monster Memory" was not an essential factor in creating dynamic combat.

"Can the encounter retain that knowledge, so that subsequent attempts are more dynamic?

Terry Michaels: We have yet to talk in depth about how creature memory will work, but we do not believe that this type of knowledge is necessary to create dynamic and interesting encounters."

I mean dynamic combat is about monsters acting towards me in ways reflecting what I've recently done right?

If they can't remember what I've recently done, how is it not reaction based scripted combat? (at that point it's basically just a choose your own adventure book with scripted results)

Just take out the word dynamic and put in the word random.

An encounter doesn't have to remember you specifically, or what tactics were previously used. It can be reactive and dynamic based on what stimulus it receives. An element of randomness should be included as far as equal choices, spells or attacks a mob can choose from in a certain situation.

Draegan_sl said:

Just take out the word dynamic and put in the word random.

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They (storybricks dudes) talked about if a mob was faced with a 100% neutral reaction that it would likely be procedurally (randomly) generated. Which means that if it were just left alone in the wild it would do random stuff. I think that's great.

I'm fine with random, I love rogue-likes, random maps etc.

How would you meet a 100% neutral? Maybe interacting with townsfolk? Obviously if you are in Lower Guk, you can be as neutral as fuck, but are still going to get attacked. Or if the mob views you as a possible meal. Additionally I think every race will have some racial bias toward others. So yeah.. I guess it's theoretically possible.

I've read and watched just about everything they've put out as far as storybricks and AI. Nothing I've posted is outside the realm of what they have presented.

Now, you can be pessimistic. But don't try to pretend this is just shit I made up. The specific scenario may be, but it is well with the boundaries of what they have explained is possible.

Lleauaric_sl said:

How would you meet a 100% neutral? Maybe interacting with townsfolk? Obviously if you are in Lower Guk, you can be as neutral as fuck, but are still going to get attacked. Or if the mob views you as a possible meal. Additionally I think every race will have some racial bias toward others. So yeah.. I guess it's theoretically possible.

I've read and watched just about everything they've put out as far as storybricks and AI. Nothing I've posted is outside the realm of what they have presented.

Now, you can be pessimistic. But don't try to pretend this is just shit I made up. The specific scenario may be, but it is well with the boundaries of what they have explained is possible.

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If a monster is out of its mind insane, think bristlebane chaos style bloodlusted orcs. It might consider everything 100% neutral and do random shit and destroy everything or stare at a butterfly.

Sounds like the potential is there, that's pretty hype.

What's not hype is if you can reliably trigger a mobs scripted 1-100% agressive response and reliably "do the dance" with its limited sets of telegraphs trivializing the fight.

Fighting an orc that has random abilities and subsequently randomized attack patterns is more interesting and skill based as far as player reactions than fighting an orc that only knows how to swing a sword. IMO.

Editing in an example from another game: Path of Exile

There are droves of little-shit mobs that you blast through, however there are sometimes rare mobs among the mix that have a randomized set of abilities with an additional randomized "Nemesis" mod. Certain combinations are easy to deal with, others like "Stormcall" require advanced tactics.

Knowing these mobs exist randomly the player takes the content more seriously and cautiously or risks dying.

If Storybricks procedurally generates elite versions of normal mundane monsters I'll be hyped about it.

If it generates templated bosses/elites by triggering abilities off of player choices in the map, it will be exploitable and subsequently mundane.

The cynical side of me wants to watch this blow up, just to see the tears of so many that have already gone "all in" on what is basically still ideas

But hey, I am all for a chance at a good game.

Vitality_sl said:

Knowing these mobs exist randomly the player takes the content more seriously and cautiouslyor risks dying.

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Theres the question of how much of a risk it is to die to #yolo behaviour. And by risk I mean penalty. And by that i mean corpse loss. Well obviously not that but the point is does it matter if I die to something or do I just continue on my merry way within a minute?

a_skeleton_02_sl said:

I'm all in because if this game sucks i'm done with MMO's forever. I will start with EQ and end with EQ.

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Almost every innovation in software programming that has been implemented in MMOs has been criticized as sucking initially. As the technology improves and the kinks are worked out then it becomes accepted.

Some examples:

Instancing was introduced in LDoN expansion to widespread criticism by the player base. When WoW used instancing for all the private group dungeons, it became popular and is now the norm.

Later on, WoW introduced phasing in WotLK. It was criticized because it split up the player base and had a negative impact on grouping. No idea how many other MMOs use phasing a lot besides TESO, who was also criticized for how they implemented phasing. However, in the most recent patch ZOS figured out a way to get people in the same group all into the same phase so that should render all the previous criticisms moot and become the standard accepted method for MMOs that use phasing to implement it from here on out.

Storybricks will be no different than instancing or phasing. Initially it will probably not work as well as players hoped it would. There will be a lot of people on this forum whining and complaining about it and saying it sucks. With anything new and technologically complex, good chance they will be correct. Just like new innovations in previous MMOs, it will probably take SOE several months after release to work out the kinks, learn from their mistakes and refine how it all works.

Idk Resco, I think storybricks is pretty sweet after watching their seminars online today.

It's what SOE does with it that might not be that great. SOE has been known to muck stuff up in the past.

Becoming the norm is not by default an innovation, and when valid criticisms of implementations go unfixed for the entire expansions and it takes a brand new game to get it right that doesn't really inspire confidence.

Vitality_sl said:

SOE has been known to muck stuff up in the past.

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Yep, but they also have been known to do some pretty incredible things.

Lleauaric_sl said:

Yep, but they also have been known to do some pretty incredible things.

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By accident.

a_skeleton_02_sl said:

I'm all in because if this game sucks i'm done with MMO's forever. I will start with EQ and end with EQ.

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Heheh, that made me chuckle.

I'm bound to be disappointed in EQNext, even though I will try to be open minded when it is released. Just too many memories of how it use to be and all that.

Even if the game isn't what I would prefer, I hope it is a huge success. Way too early to make predictions at this point though, it's still vaporware.

Grim1_sl said:

Heheh, that made me chuckle.

I'm bound to be disappointed in EQNext, even though I will try to be open minded when it is released. Just too many memories of how it use to be and all that.

Even if the game isn't what I would prefer, I hope it is a huge success. Way too early to make predictions at this point though, it's still vaporware.

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EQnext is the last rodeo for this old cowboy, too. If it doesn't grab me I'm done until the first polished VRMMORPG.

edit* thought about it. If anyone makes an MMORPG out of A Song of Ice and Fire I'd almost definitely check it out. Hellboy, too... And Dune... Or Spawn...

...fuck. Those last 3 aren't gonna happen, but I could see ASOIAF MMORPG within the next 4 years.

Thing is if EQN fails there is literally nothing else but WoW and its offspring of clones that people say arent clones. Fortunately is EQN fails i will just continue to pretend that consoles are the master race and be content.

There are plenty of games out there.