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Staying true to EverQuest form - When something takes months to find, its usually cause it hasnt been implemented yet.
EQ Never
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Managing difficulty levels and loot flow is the big issue in this type of game. Good news is they don't really need to trailblaze that too much, copying a diablo-esque loot system with a difficulty system similar to EVE will make the game fine, and it kinda sounds like that's what they intend to do. With that type of loot system you always have people chasing a slightly better stat roll, and the difficulty tiering for the most part gets you to the same place just at different speeds so you don't need to worry too much if the highest difficulty tier is too tough for some people since they can get to the same place just at a slower pace in a lower tier.
Crafting is a tough nut to crack, ultra rare drop recipes or hyper skill grind kinda work to make crafters rare enough that they are appreciated but the only system that really works and isn't RNG or completely ghey is the capital based system that a game like EVE has. EQN having good crafting is prolly unlikely because of the most part no one in the industry seems to understand anything at all about economics.
Crafting is a tough nut to crack, ultra rare drop recipes or hyper skill grind kinda work to make crafters rare enough that they are appreciated but the only system that really works and isn't RNG or completely ghey is the capital based system that a game like EVE has. EQN having good crafting is prolly unlikely because of the most part no one in the industry seems to understand anything at all about economics.
I feel that everything should have an upgrade, I was always a fan of the way EQ did spells later on in Luclin+ with the ancient spells and stuff. I would love to have your normal abilities then have the change to get drops off of mobs for RankII of the ability that is superior. That way people who don't raid can still have a complete spell book but the raiders can have another way to progress.
I hope you are wrong there. Copying the Diablo or WoW loot system where loot drops like candy would be the complete 180 opposite of the original
EQ1 system. There are plenty of MMOs out there where loot drops like candy and even casuals can get epic quality gear. I would like to see EQNext return back to the roots of EQ1 where loot drops are rare and can last you for several levels.
Malakriss
Avatar of War Slayer
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This will probably go over your head but when people reference a generalized system and actually add an -esque on it, maybe you shouldn't assume that all of the small details and design aspects that you personally hate make up the entirety of that system and that's what they're copying.
No to random drops, Every mob should have a loot table and if I want a sword that only drops of of Orc Blademasters then I should be able to hunt Orc Blademasters not 'mob range 03-07'
No to prefix-sufix, The dilutes items and makes 90% of the item that dropped worthless because chances are it has some stat that is useless on it. A weapon should be a weapon that fits with the lore of who has it and designed with a purpose not just a jumble of stats.
I think the WoW/Diablo way of generating items is a bad way to go for mob loot drops but I think it would be a good way for crafting. If you need 4 steel ingots to make a basic sword, Then you add some flux to give it +int then you add some crystallized mana to add +MP you could make a custom sword that is randomly generated.
No to prefix-sufix, The dilutes items and makes 90% of the item that dropped worthless because chances are it has some stat that is useless on it. A weapon should be a weapon that fits with the lore of who has it and designed with a purpose not just a jumble of stats.
I think the WoW/Diablo way of generating items is a bad way to go for mob loot drops but I think it would be a good way for crafting. If you need 4 steel ingots to make a basic sword, Then you add some flux to give it +int then you add some crystallized mana to add +MP you could make a custom sword that is randomly generated.
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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Not that i mind the former but i do miss specified loot tables - it also gives a bit of purpose to grinding instead of useless time spent. Rare loot should feel rare and earned not completely random and luck based.
I agree, I understand we can't have silly 10 hour camps for items anymore but still having the option for a camp should be possible.
I think crafting should be a huge part of the game and I think there should be no "recipes" per say. If you make a sword and reforge it 10 times using rarer and rarer ingredients it should be a ridiculous sword because you probably raided mobs for ingredients and spent tons of time skilling up and working on it. Once a sword gets to a certain level you should be able to name it as well instead of "Pheonix sword of the owl" garbage.
Probably not a good idea on your part to start off a post with an insult and then say something idiotic.
Anyone who has played Diablo knows loot drops like candy in that game. If someone refers to a "Diable-esque" loot system, everyone who has played the game knows exactly what they mean.
Assuming you have at least one functional brain cell, it shouldn't be too hard for you to connect the dots and figure out that a Diablo-esque loot system would be completely antithetical to the original EQ1 loot system.
Fully agree and the same point I have been making, which apparently went over Malakriss' head.
WoW has turned into the mmo version of crying socialism, cause you realize the wow loot system and the diablo one are not even vaguely similar, right? And you better not come back and say they are the same because wow used random stats on the vendor trash that dropped and thats the same as using random stats and world drop tables on stuff people actually use like diablo did.
You also have to consider that this isn't a level based game, and so can't have a level based games loot system. Its also a game that is supposed to rely heavily on generated dynamic content, from the info so far it doesn't sound like they will have many static zones or camps so I kinda doubt they will go with static named spawns, but it depends alot on how the game turns out.
@Rescorla, I don't mind people saying they didn't like the diablo loot system, fair enough. Just don't try to lump that system in with WoW when WoW is far far closer to EQ1s loot system, with the only real difference between the two being that in EQ1 early on the lack of instancing limited loot flow so much and made items rare.
Utnayan
F16 - Having fun in Iran
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Not to mention there were no level limits on weapons/armor. So twinking was definitely a market and the cycle of items in the economy was mainlined to keep items rare even after mudflation set in.
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I wish they would bring back this shit. It made the world so much more alive to have old content still contested and used for those items. And how did twinking really hurt anything anyway? Keep the level limits and no drop on raid level gear, anything below that should all be open game for anyone to use.
Twinking never hurt anyone until it got the point where there was so much higher level gear being passed down that new players would be passed over for a large portion of twinks. (I'm talking like Luclin plus when you could farm stupid lvl 50 zones and gear out a twink in a day)
I think the recommended level gear was a very smart idea that was implemented to late. Every magic item should lose/gain stats depending on the wielder, being twinked would still be a massive advantage but no one should have the power of a fungi wearing monk at lvl 1.
Utnayan
F16 - Having fun in Iran
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Yeah but Mkopec's point was that no one was there anyway. New players had people around to assist them in that content because they may be gearing a twink, not the reverse where new players were being snubbed. I remember a lot of folks helping those players while they were farming. With level limits, they would have destroyed the reason for going back there and new players, in a group centric game, would be completely out of the loop. Due to a lack of population. (Unless they started on a new server) One could make the argument the content wasn't challenging when being assisted, so there is that, but in the old days all you had to do was make sure you had a group mezzer, a tank that taunted 2-3 times before hitting a mezzed mob, and healing.
Where did I say I don't like the Diablo loot system? I like it just fine when I'm playing a hack and slash action RPG like Diablo. It's a fact that loot drops like candy in that game. I can play for a couple of hours and have a high chance of getting a legendary drop. Whether it has the stats I want is a different issue.
Diablo and WoW may have different loot systems but at their core they share the same design philosophy. Give the players loot upgrades every level that give small increments in their overall power. Based on the popularity of Diablo and WoW that may financially be the best strategy for a online game.
As an EQ1 vet, for EQN I still prefer a loot system more comparable to the original EQ1 design model than the Diablo or WoW model. I would assume that opinion is shared by most EQ1 vets as well.
Agreed if we assume content at an equal level to the player is challenging then not being twinked AND not having players to help you is a problem. You can have either but if you have none then it sucks.
I'm sure we can think of a better way to twink instead of just giving high level gear to lower level players. Any games that came out recently allow twinking?
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Well an example was in FFXIV, when you play a class, you can use some shared abilities from other classes. Having certain skills like a heal or an armor reduction debuff from another class lets you twink your alts faster and more efficiently. The system is however quite restrictive, both in terms of how many abilities you get(1 every 10levels iirc) as well as what's shared and what can be used(as a general rule most physical abilities are only usable by physical classes and magical abilities by magical classes, with a few abilities like cooldowns or heal that can be used by everyone).
There's downleveling/mentoring for all the helping new players thing though, or the scaling the new player up to max level to do stuff(iirc GW2 had that in dungeons, everyone was scaled to 80 in explorable mode so you could bring your newbie friend to a lvl 80 run, even though they ended up being quite underpowered a lot of the time). GW2 also had a system where your level was always synced to the area, which has pros and cons, but more importantly I think every mob you kill had a chance to drop gear of your real level, not just their own loot tables, which made it always worth it to go help people, assuming you wanted to.
There's downleveling/mentoring for all the helping new players thing though, or the scaling the new player up to max level to do stuff(iirc GW2 had that in dungeons, everyone was scaled to 80 in explorable mode so you could bring your newbie friend to a lvl 80 run, even though they ended up being quite underpowered a lot of the time). GW2 also had a system where your level was always synced to the area, which has pros and cons, but more importantly I think every mob you kill had a chance to drop gear of your real level, not just their own loot tables, which made it always worth it to go help people, assuming you wanted to.
Utnayan
F16 - Having fun in Iran
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Kind of. Although it has more turned into a PvP style of "Stay under the next tier level cap" in some games. But no with the way theme parks work today, there isn't much of a point. You will out-level your gear in a few hours it seems. Twinking would go hand in hand with a true open world MMORPG without level locked restrictions on advancement, long leveling curve, and value to the items which will last weeks. I loved it back in the day. A Ykesha on a level 1 warrior was hilarious fun.
I am of the reasoning that people should be given the freedom to play how they want, however. So.... there is that based in my opinion.