EQ Never

Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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I agree that the EQ1 "F2P" is a total failure that only servers to drag back that 1% of old EQ players that tried it out and resubbed. It's not playable without a sub (might be the same for EQ2, I woudnt know). If PS2 is the exception and EQN goes the way EQ1/2 went for their cash model, it'll crash and burn. Now I might be wrong here but isnt it likely that they tried the EQ1/2 model and realized that it doesnt work and drives away customers? After all thats what pretty much everyone says. If PS2 is really the new SOE design goal as far as subscription and cash shop goes, and I think they've said as much, then for now I'm not too concerned about any of that.
 
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Dashiva_sl

shitlord
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Flunklesnarkin_sl said:
That really is a hard thing to balance imo. The company needs to make money on a game but at the same time if they go all overboard with driving profit it ruins the fun of the game.

I don't know how others feel about FTP games with item shops, but if there was a game I really enjoyed, I'd be willing to pay a larger monthly subscription for access if it was required to keep microtransactions out.

subscriptions might not be the most profitable business model, but I find it the most fun.

I agree with you entirely that EQNext will be full of microtransactions.
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I have no problems with microtransactions but the way SOE focused entirely on them in EQ2 completely killed the playerbase. As I stated I remember a time when SOE didn't release ANY new content whatsoever, they simply spent a entire year pushing as many marketplace items as possible.

I remember a situation where my raiding guild were trying to progress through broken mobs and quite honestly some horrendous itemization. You would have instances of SOE releasing new mounts to buy on the marketplace EVERY two weeks and only one stupidly rare raid dropped mount that looked like it was designed by a kid on speed. It was insane, I would see some lvl 14 new player all decked out in this amazing looking armor whilst my guild would be killing the hardest mobs in the game and their armor was simply a redo of a old lvl 10 crafted item with a different tint on it. Each week SOE would posts on their webpage of their new content which consisted of new furniture to decorate your house with.

If there was ever a example of how not to implement micro-transactions then SOE did it in EQ2. I also remember them talking constantly about how they listened to feedback and how their in game polls were so important to them. This was of course complete and utter nonsense.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
7,927
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Burren_sl said:
Wow set the pace for a shit-ton of stuff to do at any give point.
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Everquest was made by people who did MUDs, i.e. type stuff and text commands and then think about the next command. WoW was made by people who made RTS and Hacknslash where your ability is measured in clicks per second.
 
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Silence_sl

shitlord
2,459
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Ukerric_sl said:
Everquest was made by people who did MUDs, i.e. type stuff and text commands and then think about the next command.WoW was made by people who made RTS and Hacknslash where your ability is measured in clicks per second.
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What am I missing here.

(Rhetorical question)
 
Royal

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Ukerric_sl said:
Everquest was made by people who did MUDs, i.e. type stuff and text commands and then think about the next command. WoW was made by people who made RTS and Hacknslash where your ability is measured in clicks per second.
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Actually WoW was made by people who played or worked on Everquest, Ultima Online, and DAoC who knew they could go beyond a decade old style of combat without their servers shitting themselves.
 
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qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
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Dashiva_sl said:
I was blown away by the shear disdain shown to the playerbase of EQ2 over the last few years. The shear greed was blatantly obvious
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They have always been like that though. Although I talk about EQ like I want its babies, I actually quit it very early on. I played from release to mid Kunark and then quit because I was annoyed at various things. Then I returned and quit again, and again, and again. But each time I returned there was a new expansion and I hated how they worked, because often people hadn't completed the previous content. And yet the expansion invalidated most of what went before it, so you basically HAD to get the new expansion otherwise you would be playing old shit by yourself. After like 14 or something expansions to date, I think it's pretty clear SOE are crazy bastards who masturbate with money and get in to a kind of blood thirst frenzy every time they see an opportunity to milk their poor addicted customers some more. They drove EQ in to the ground, then did the same with EQ2 and SWG and whatever other shit they screwed around with over the past decade. And then most recently they had Vanguard which had been completely ignored and abandoned for the past 6 years, and now all of sudden they have spent the last several months filling it to the brim with real money transactions and over powered pay to win shit all over the place and they are really pushing it.

I know businesses are in the business of making money, but there are many different ways of achieving that and I think it's clear that SOE are just totally down with the evil dark empire way of doing things. I think some people realized this by about 2002. Eleven years later.. I don't think there are all that many people left who haven't realized it by now. Although there will probably be a whole new generation of gamers today who have just bought Planetside 2 and they don't know this dark history and closet full of skeletons, but no doubt they will figure it out soon enough.
 
Royal

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Dashiva_sl said:
I was blown away by the shear disdain shown to the playerbase of EQ2 over the last few years. The shear greed was blatantly obvious
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qwerty_sl said:
They have always been like that though.
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I was thinking the same thing. I guess "13 years" is the Jeopardy answer to the question "How long does it take for the shit smell of Abashi to leave a room?"
 
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Dashiva_sl

shitlord
50
0
Royal_sl said:
I was thinking the same thing. I guess "13 years" is the Jeopardy answer to the question "How long does it take for the shit smell of Abashi to leave a room?"
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I never played EQ, only EQ2. The first three years of that game were fantastic, Harstman was in charge of things and it had a great community with moorguard/blackguard running the forums. I don't expect things to ever be perfect and to a extent I can accept the whole dangling a carrot in front of the players with a new expansion every year. However this was NOTHING compared to SOEs introduction of microtransactions in EQ2. The blatant lies and shear obnoxious way in which everything else was thrown out of the window to force microtransactions in every single detail of the game was mind blowing.

I still cannot believe I stayed as long as I did, guild loyalty and people who I raided with are the only thing that kept me in the game, but NEVER again. There's not a doubt in my mind that EQNext is going to be the poster child for milking players of every penny, if it is free to play then it will be shockingly bad.
 
Agenor

Agenor

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,465
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Unfortunately, instead of putting effort into creative ways to keep people interested in their game long term, they are pushing boundaries to see what they can get away with charging people for. (See SWTOR)

I don't understand how the devs involved in EQN had to already scrap a version of the game. How do you not have a rock solid plan before a single pixel is generated? These guys aren't rookies, they should have a firm grasp on what is and isn't feasible. I know unforeseen things happen, but damn the direction your game you want to go in should be figured out very early on.

It will be interesting to see where the MMORPG genre will be when EQN launches. I see a game that is just awful in SWTOR and the biodrones so willing to spend cash on the cartel market, on packs that have awful odds at getting something decent on. It also appears that the better looking gear is not being added in to the game itself As a drop, but as A RMT.

You just know SOE will wind up following this path If it proves to bail out swtor from a financial standpoint. I guess it all depends how many whales you can attract with the " in case our game tanks ftp model"

Fucking Obama
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,380
276
Dashiva_sl said:
I never played EQ, only EQ2. The first three years of that game were fantastic, Harstman was in charge of things and it had a great community with moorguard/blackguard running the forums. I don't expect things to ever be perfect and to a extent I can accept the whole dangling a carrot in front of the players with a new expansion every year. However this was NOTHING compared to SOEs introduction of microtransactions in EQ2. The blatant lies and shear obnoxious way in which everything else was thrown out of the window to force microtransactions in every single detail of the game was mind blowing.

I still cannot believe I stayed as long as I did, guild loyalty and people who I raided with are the only thing that kept me in the game, but NEVER again. There's not a doubt in my mind that EQNext is going to be the poster child for milking players of every penny, if it is free to play then it will be shockingly bad.
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I dont know, if you look at the big picture from 99 until 2004 (WoW) EQ1 was undisputed top dog, they could afford to be lazy with it. There were some challengers that carved out their niche but no MMO really dented EQ1 until WoW. However, SOE themselves did a fine job alienating many players, and it showed even before WoW released. They had to appease the community, pretending to be listening etc, alot more from PoP and especially GoD onwards. And they already worked on the sequel. Releasing that in the same month as WoW was, well, lets say unwise. Later on the Hartsman era of EQ2 was the best time it ever had according to everyone that cared, so I think SOE can do good if they want to and are faced with competition or have to play catch up to the distant market lead. The Cash shop that came to both games after that is really putting a senile 90 year old on permanent life support. That and nickel and diming through a cash shop is the thing to do in most of this industry for MMOs that failed within the first quarter.

SoI'm gonna go on record here as having played EQ from 2000 to 2004 as a raider, I know my share of SOE bullshit, andfor nowI do believe Smed and their plans/hopes/intentions for EQN. And I consider PS2 a good sign of the things to come.

Agenor_sl said:
Unfortunately, instead of putting effort into creative ways to keep people interested in their game long term, they are pushing boundaries to see what they can get away with charging people for. (See SWTOR)

I don't understand how the devs involved in EQN had to already scrap a version of the game. How do you not have a rock solid plan before a single pixel is generated? These guys aren't rookies, they should have a firm grasp on what is and isn't feasible. I know unforeseen things happen, but damn the direction your game you want to go in should be figured out very early on.

It will be interesting to see where the MMORPG genre will be when EQN launches. I see a game that is just awful in SWTOR and the biodrones so willing to spend cash on the cartel market, on packs that have awful odds at getting something decent on. It also appears that the better looking gear is not being added in to the game itself As a drop, but as A RMT.

You just know SOE will wind up following this path If it proves to bail out swtor from a financial standpoint. I guess it all depends how many whales you can attract with the " in case our game tanks ftp model"

Fucking Obama
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I think they started on their WoW clone several years ago when that path was still considered a good investment. The string of failures since then changed that assumption, especially the pretty much immediate death of TOR which had a big name in Bioware, one of the biggest franchise you can have in Star Wars and unlimited budget on top. So either you throw more money at that or screw it and start over, and I'm pretty sure canceling the WoW clone was a good decision, no matter of they can follow up with a different EQN or none at all.

Maybe I'm too optimistic here but the big difference is between bolting on F2p and cash shops on a sinking MMO and designing one with it in mind. PS2 in that regard feels organic to me, you can get everything stat-changing with money OR time (and the time investment for weapons is not bad unless your mindset is "need moar now"), many important things can ONLY be gotten with time (you can pay to reduce the time with xp boosters but still need to play to gain those things) and purely cosmetic things can ONLY be gotten with money. Its a good split for me. You cannot buy instant complete and best equipment, even if you buy the base weapon it will require time to get the addons through play.
 
Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
1,678
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Dashiva_sl said:
I never played EQ, only EQ2. The first three years of that game were fantastic, Harstman was in charge of things and it had a great community with moorguard/blackguard running the forums. I don't expect things to ever be perfect and to a extent I can accept the whole dangling a carrot in front of the players with a new expansion every year. However this was NOTHING compared to SOEs introduction of microtransactions in EQ2. The blatant lies and shear obnoxious way in which everything else was thrown out of the window to force microtransactions in every single detail of the game was mind blowing.

I still cannot believe I stayed as long as I did, guild loyalty and people who I raided with are the only thing that kept me in the game, but NEVER again. There's not a doubt in my mind that EQNext is going to be the poster child for milking players of every penny, if it is free to play then it will be shockingly bad.
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Yeah their leap in to the world of RMT was laughable from the outside, from a customers point of view it must have been horrifying. But again, SOE's fuckwittery knows no bounds. Even EQ2 itself was based on stupid shit all over the place. Like when they admitted it would only have 2 towns and everyone instantly said wtf? What about bottlenecks etc? But SOE insisted it would be fine. Then as soon as large numbers hit the game, it all turned to shit. They had to quickly shoehorn some instances in so you ended up in the 11th instance of the same zone.

And they announced that they would have regional specific servers, and you would be forced on to a specific server based on your location. So Euros would never see US players and vice versa, etc.. The community went absolutely ape shit and they ended up having to come up with a new policy. I think it's clear that their number 1 priority is their profit, so keeping costs to a minimum and service quality etc. is all a key part of that. Priority number 2 is propaganda and talking a good game when the reality is very different. Actually supporting a good game and happy community is just far too far down their list of priorities.

I think Vanguard is a really good example of how they work, because it's basically just pure lies. They talk about how they are now committed to adding to the game and they have a new team and these are going to be happy days! And then in reality all they have done is throw in one shitty bit of content that various teams have been working on for years and never bothered to finish, and everything else has just been RMT. And then you have assholes like Moorgard talking about how they are looking at tweaking their RMT and F2P policies because they don't want to milk the players, and then a moment later they add gigantic backpacks with XP boosts on them for 3000 station cash.

Agenor_sl said:
Unfortunately, instead of putting effort into creative ways to keep people interested in their game long term, they are pushing boundaries to see what they can get away with charging people for. (See SWTOR)

I don't understand how the devs involved in EQN had to already scrap a version of the game. How do you not have a rock solid plan before a single pixel is generated?
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It is totally baffling. It makes me just think that they do what Smedley wants and he changes his mind on a whim. Not only do they seem totally moronic for wasting money on developing something they weren't committed to, but they basically have also admitted that what they made was a WoW clone. After 10 years of nothing but shitty WoW clones... if I was SOE I would be ashamed to admit that I had joined the bandwagon too.

Agenor_sl said:
It will be interesting to see where the MMORPG genre will be when EQN launches. I see a game that is just awful in SWTOR and the biodrones so willing to spend cash on the cartel market, on packs that have awful odds at getting something decent on. It also appears that the better looking gear is not being added in to the game itself As a drop, but as A RMT.
Click to expand...
I think the game might be decent, kind of like a remake of the original EQ but with better graphics and some more sandboxy shit. But I definitely see it being totally RMT based, and pay to win like Vanguard. They question the term pay2win and yet you can spend money and load up on potions that instantly completely heal you and restore all your mana. If that's not pay2win then wtf is. But there is also: Raid quality weapons you can get as a newbie, entire sets of good gear you can just buy from the store, amazing mounts far better than what you get in game, gigantic backpacks with XP boosts and run speed increases, XP boost potions, cosmetic gear galore, rez potions (a clicky gem), potions to remove your experience debt from dying, etc..etc..etc..

I would be hopeful for EQ Next if it wasn't for them having such a massive hardon for RMT in all their current games.
 
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Therage

Vyemm Raider
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*edit* What a dick!
 
V

Valos

Golden Knight of the Realm
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He's been in the beta for awhile now. You should see some of the screenshots!
 
Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
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EQ was pretty much the only game that I played that I cared what happened in game while I wasn't playing. Because of the game design of most other games since you never really miss anything unless your guild had a first kill.
 
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Slyminxy

Lord Nagafen Raider
739
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Must have devs get into this thread and give us a piece of their mind.

And have Smedley stop counting millions and start barking orders that will make a game that builds community and is not a Wow clone or RMT pushover.

There's like a bunch of excellente pointers in this thread alone, not to mention others. But we all know they'll fall on deaf ears, because money makes the world go round.
 
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