Everquest - Would you play on a Selos-FV Hybrid TLP server

Would you play on a Selos-FV-Multibox-Mercenary TLP server?

  • Total voters
    28
Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,259
1,129
Would you play on a TLP server with the following ruleset?

  • One month expansion release
  • Selos server experience rate
  • Agent of Change raid instances
  • Multibox permitted
  • 3rd party software officially permitted for keystroke broadcasting
  • No unattended gameplay permitted (No bots allowed)
  • FV tradable loot system
  • Server starts in Planes of Power
I think that Truebox servers work out good in the early expansions, but overtime as those servers start to lose population, it gets harder and harder for the average player to get anything done due to a lack of available groups. Also, as more and more expansions open up, the population gets spread thin because there is just so many varied accomplishments that the players may be wanting to work on.

Being able to EASILY play your own group to go work on what you want to work on WHEN you want to work on it is the benefit of having mercenaries and multiboxing available. It isn't for everyone, but it does benefit the average player whether they realize it or not. As for those that have no problem boxing on truebox servers or have pre-made groups, this still benefits them because the more average players that DON'T get frustrated with the game as a server ages, ends up being just that many more people continuing to play on that server to fill out their raiding needs.

Like it or not, every whiner you tell to fuck off and ends up leaving your server is another nail in the coffin of that server's future. It does matter, and it does add up over time.
 
Metalhead

Metalhead

Vyemm Raider
1,070
3,017
I never played on Selo, but I would think one month expansions are just too fast. I played on Phinigel from classic through HoT and three months was okish but ldon being it's own three month expansion and all the 70 expansions are such a slog to get through. Two month xpacs with selo's faster lockout timers and XP rate would probably be my sweet spot. Oh and I'd also be fine if they just deleted LDON.
 
Sterling

Sterling

El Presidente
13,142
8,112
Bonus loot would have been much better than the faster unlocks on instances. Shit is just endless.
 
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iannis

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,660
An expansion every month?

I haven't played eq in nearly 20 years. Is Selos Xp like 10000x xp? I'm not making fun, it would have to be turbocharged xp for an expansion a month. So much would have to be tuned to speed it up. There were so many time locks, it wasn't just a single bottleneck.

Which may be exactly what people have been doing in the past 15 years.
 
Sterling

Sterling

El Presidente
13,142
8,112
iannis said:
An expansion every month?

I haven't played eq in nearly 20 years. Is Selos Xp like 10000x xp? I'm not making fun, it would have to be turbocharged xp for an expansion a month. So much would have to be tuned to speed it up. There were so many time locks, it wasn't just a single bottleneck.

Which may be exactly what people have been doing in the past 15 years.
Click to expand...
Selo XP rate is crazy fast. It's pretty absurd.
 
Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,259
1,129
DickTrickle said:
It's more theoretical than Pantheon.
Click to expand...
LOL! Yes. This is purely theoretical.

That being said, these forums are probably considered more closely to that of a focus group for certain games compared to their own official forums. So, be constructive, and you never know what might happen.
 
Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,259
1,129
The interesting thing here is that if you combine the Yes and Maybe votes (because those votes show at least some willingness to try this type of server), you come out to just below 50%. So, this is not a completely bad idea apparently.

My assumption is that based on that many people willing to consider this type of server means that some number of the NO votes are based on some part of the spec rather than the whole thing. For example, some might be saying NO purely because of 1 month expansion unlocks or FV rule set.

I'd be curious to see what people would say if we started a poll that let you choose multiple options and had a bunch of rules posted on it to choose from. My guess is that you could take that, and come up with a server type that meets a wide majority of people's interest.

I don't want to flood the forums with my polls, so I will wait and see what a forum admin thinks. I would like to run one more poll that basically has a list of TLP options (like Mercenaries or No Mercenaries, FV loot rules or No FV loot rules, etc) that allows you to choose as many choices as you want, and see which rule features are the most wanted compared to least wanted.

I'll give it a couple days, and if no admin says fuck off, I will post the poll.
 
Sterling

Sterling

El Presidente
13,142
8,112
They've been very resistant to tradeable loot, it gets brought up almost every cycle of TLPs. There are some issues with it aside from what could happen to the economy of the server. Any clicky item that results in whatever stat AA would be mean that your entire guild would immediately have the AA. For example if you got a robe off of emperor in SSRA every caster in your guild would get to have 5 more mana regen.
 
Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,259
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Sterling said:
They've been very resistant to tradeable loot, it gets brought up almost every cycle of TLPs. There are some issues with it aside from what could happen to the economy of the server. Any clicky item that results in whatever stat AA would be mean that your entire guild would immediately have the AA. For example if you got a robe off of emperor in SSRA every caster in your guild would get to have 5 more mana regen.
Click to expand...
I had not thought about that. It wasn't a thing back before they made the item clickies give you a permanent AA, but I can see where that would be an issue now.

I wonder if the answer would be to make everything that is "No Trade" on normal servers be "Bind On Equip" on FV ruleset servers.

The only reason that I like the idea of being able to trade raid loot is because for the average player that doesn't have the time to dedicate to raiding, it is a major bonus to be able to save up plat or use Krono to purchase raid-level gear on the FV server. It's no big secret that raid-level gear makes a huge difference in a players ability to solo/duo/molo group content. Content that a fully raid geared player considers insanely easy is sometimes completely impossible for a non-raid geared player. For those average players with limited time to dedicate to the game, this can be the straw that inevitably pushes them away from the game, and I really do believe that every player on a server that leaves the game is a major loss for the server.

That's really the only reason I include FV loot rule as a necessary feature. Giving the average player the ability to at least have an option to get a piece of raid-level gear here and there is a huge incentive for those players to keep playing the game and paying DBG which in turn goes towards them making more expansions that the raiders want.

I do believe though that maybe making every raid-level drop be "Bind on Equip" instead of freely tradable would be a good way to go about it.
 
yerm

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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17,428
People talk about parking boxes, making room, inviting real players for more difficult tasks/missions... but in reality when you have a stable box setup you just are not going to be accessible. Even when you are, it will usually be "you can join me" and not "I can come help you" outside very limited situations (eg helping guildies get flagged). It may take as much as a couple months before people have their boxes leveled and their routines (scripts, hacks, whatever) ironed out and smooth, but before long, boxing will be the standard and anyone reliant on others for groups to progress will feel very left out and behind.

The second issue which people get real uptight hearing... it fucking BLOWS having your main be something not a tank in a box crew. Eventually there are a few exceptions - maybe you have a decent mage pet setup - but this has many expansions before it works, and isn't as fully versatile as a normal tank for doing everything eq offers.

Personally? Make the server anyway. People will either recognize and compensate for the shittiness of being a nontank main and make sure they are cared for, or just box extras on raids and god forbid click a mask or sing a performer line on an alt. Let the box lovers have a home.


Fv loot is a whole other beast. Because top raid loot is tradeable it makes obsolete raids even more worthless, and by extension non-elite raid guilds even more worthless. But at the same time, because gear can be redistributed, the need to farm is diminished, so content is consumed even faster. You have an environment where the fast guilds move even faster while the slow guilds have less of a carrot for raiding / less feeling of ownership. If the server moves selo like the inner circle style guilds feel shit on, if it moves phinny like the amtrak style guilds are bored silly.

This is before even touching the worse problem of rmt. Some people who quit sell, but the majority of folks hold their accounts. Fv loot means you can dump your character's gear for krono without ever doing something illegal. Anyone you know who quit and later decided to return? Not here, if they quit chances are they cashed out too, who wouldn't. Even people who haven't quit might cash out. Back when raid loot was tradeable it was impossible to get folks to be egalitarian with shit like upgraded tormax gear, why would fv ruled anguish armor be different? The temptation is huge, the pressure is ugly, and the leadership is in a hell of a bind plus a huge spotlight against even perceived corruption. Every kill is potential real money drama.

When you combine fv and boxing it gets even uglier. Pay dkp for raid loot with boxed alts in mind? Restrict items to the guildbank or let people min bid for their shitters and/or own bank account? How do you handle raid alts here? If I main a cleric can I demand rots for my tank box? Really, the two rulesets together just multiply almost all of their drawbacks while only alleviating the not-tank-main issue. It's a rough combination.
 
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Fight

Fight

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,737
5,622
yerm said:
People talk about parking boxes, making room, inviting real players for more difficult tasks/missions... but in reality when you have a stable box setup you just are not going to be accessible. Even when you are, it will usually be "you can join me" and not "I can come help you" outside very limited situations (eg helping guildies get flagged). It may take as much as a couple months before people have their boxes leveled and their routines (scripts, hacks, whatever) ironed out and smooth, but before long, boxing will be the standard and anyone reliant on others for groups to progress will feel very left out and behind.

The second issue which people get real uptight hearing... it fucking BLOWS having your main be something not a tank in a box crew. Eventually there are a few exceptions - maybe you have a decent mage pet setup - but this has many expansions before it works, and isn't as fully versatile as a normal tank for doing everything eq offers.

Personally? Make the server anyway. People will either recognize and compensate for the shittiness of being a nontank main and make sure they are cared for, or just box extras on raids and god forbid click a mask or sing a performer line on an alt. Let the box lovers have a home.


Fv loot is a whole other beast. Because top raid loot is tradeable it makes obsolete raids even more worthless, and by extension non-elite raid guilds even more worthless. But at the same time, because gear can be redistributed, the need to farm is diminished, so content is consumed even faster. You have an environment where the fast guilds move even faster while the slow guilds have less of a carrot for raiding / less feeling of ownership. If the server moves selo like the inner circle style guilds feel shit on, if it moves phinny like the amtrak style guilds are bored silly.

This is before even touching the worse problem of rmt. Some people who quit sell, but the majority of folks hold their accounts. Fv loot means you can dump your character's gear for krono without ever doing something illegal. Anyone you know who quit and later decided to return? Not here, if they quit chances are they cashed out too, who wouldn't. Even people who haven't quit might cash out. Back when raid loot was tradeable it was impossible to get folks to be egalitarian with shit like upgraded tormax gear, why would fv ruled anguish armor be different? The temptation is huge, the pressure is ugly, and the leadership is in a hell of a bind plus a huge spotlight against even perceived corruption. Every kill is potential real money drama.

When you combine fv and boxing it gets even uglier. Pay dkp for raid loot with boxed alts in mind? Restrict items to the guildbank or let people min bid for their shitters and/or own bank account? How do you handle raid alts here? If I main a cleric can I demand rots for my tank box? Really, the two rulesets together just multiply almost all of their drawbacks while only alleviating the not-tank-main issue. It's a rough combination.
Click to expand...
That is about as smart a post as you will find on these boards. An FV-Selo server would be savage.
 
Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,259
1,129
Fight said:
That is about as smart a post as you will find on these boards. An FV-Selo server would be savage.
Click to expand...
Would it be savage if the raid drops were "Bind on Equip" rather than tradeable?

What if the "bind on equip" version only had a percentage chance to drop instead of a "no drop" version of the same item.

I totally get what both of you are saying. It's just that I'm exploring possible ways to allow the typical non-raiding player that doesn't have the time in their life to be hardcore the ability to at least work towards getting the needed upgrades they need to play the game at the level that the designers are making the game. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows.
 
yerm

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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17,428
Pharone said:
Would it be savage if the raid drops were "Bind on Equip" rather than tradeable?

What if the "bind on equip" version only had a percentage chance to drop instead of a "no drop" version of the same item.

I totally get what both of you are saying. It's just that I'm exploring possible ways to allow the typical non-raiding player that doesn't have the time in their life to be hardcore the ability to at least work towards getting the needed upgrades they need to play the game at the level that the designers are making the game. Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows.
Click to expand...

Making every no trade item just attuneable instead of notrade solves both the problems of people being able to dump when they quit and also people sniping loot just to eventually sell or gear on an alt. It comes at a cost though of destroying the entire economy of handmedowns and item transfers and open markets. You basically end up with raid loot that is no different than normal if equipped, but handing out an option to sell it if you want. In short, none of the fv loot advantages for a raid guild except maybe, very maybe, being able to bank extras... and a solid half or more of the fv loot drawbacks still there. Why bother if its turning nodrop on use?

Having sometimes tradeable as a chance doesn't help either. That just means people get $$ eyes when it does happen. You are basically turning the classic tradeable style in for more of a sleepers tomb type super rare limited opportunity. This is just a bad idea IMO it doesn't solve anything or have any real upside.

To basically answer your question: fv loot has good and bad sides to it. Tlp server style multiplies the haves vs havenot problem with it, and free boxing multiplies the feelings of obsolescence or pointlessness of not being at the top. Put all 3 together and it just smells like a real shit place to not be the king. My solution is either leave fv off the free box server or keep truebox on the fv server, and keep said server slower than selo.


Funny enough a selo speed boxing accessible fv loot server would actually be fucking awesome for a really hardcore crowd, but only that crowd, so they'd just need to be honest about it being not for casuals. Maybe release this as the "allowed to kill naggy" server. I'd avoid it but my current guildmates might have a blast.
 
krysanth

krysanth

Golden Knight of the Realm
251
192
yerm said:
People talk about parking boxes, making room, inviting real players for more difficult tasks/missions... but in reality when you have a stable box setup you just are not going to be accessible. Even when you are, it will usually be "you can join me" and not "I can come help you" outside very limited situations (eg helping guildies get flagged). It may take as much as a couple months before people have their boxes leveled and their routines (scripts, hacks, whatever) ironed out and smooth, but before long, boxing will be the standard and anyone reliant on others for groups to progress will feel very left out and behind.

The second issue which people get real uptight hearing... it fucking BLOWS having your main be something not a tank in a box crew. Eventually there are a few exceptions - maybe you have a decent mage pet setup - but this has many expansions before it works, and isn't as fully versatile as a normal tank for doing everything eq offers.

Personally? Make the server anyway. People will either recognize and compensate for the shittiness of being a nontank main and make sure they are cared for, or just box extras on raids and god forbid click a mask or sing a performer line on an alt. Let the box lovers have a home.


Fv loot is a whole other beast. Because top raid loot is tradeable it makes obsolete raids even more worthless, and by extension non-elite raid guilds even more worthless. But at the same time, because gear can be redistributed, the need to farm is diminished, so content is consumed even faster. You have an environment where the fast guilds move even faster while the slow guilds have less of a carrot for raiding / less feeling of ownership. If the server moves selo like the inner circle style guilds feel shit on, if it moves phinny like the amtrak style guilds are bored silly.

This is before even touching the worse problem of rmt. Some people who quit sell, but the majority of folks hold their accounts. Fv loot means you can dump your character's gear for krono without ever doing something illegal. Anyone you know who quit and later decided to return? Not here, if they quit chances are they cashed out too, who wouldn't. Even people who haven't quit might cash out. Back when raid loot was tradeable it was impossible to get folks to be egalitarian with shit like upgraded tormax gear, why would fv ruled anguish armor be different? The temptation is huge, the pressure is ugly, and the leadership is in a hell of a bind plus a huge spotlight against even perceived corruption. Every kill is potential real money drama.

When you combine fv and boxing it gets even uglier. Pay dkp for raid loot with boxed alts in mind? Restrict items to the guildbank or let people min bid for their shitters and/or own bank account? How do you handle raid alts here? If I main a cleric can I demand rots for my tank box? Really, the two rulesets together just multiply almost all of their drawbacks while only alleviating the not-tank-main issue. It's a rough combination.
Click to expand...

Good points Yerm. As a boxer I find myself in the same mindset, even if I don't want to be. It has detrimental effects for sure. With a tight schedule and having to AFK its nice to have my box crew so I Can play at my own pace and not waste anyone time, but I do lose out on the teamwork. I've recently started running with a box raid group and we have been doing tons of raid content and its been a blast. IT allows you to box, but also contribute to a team/socialize. Completely changed the game for me.
 
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Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,259
1,129
Nobody has been full on against the idea of another poll, so I am going to create it tomorrow, and I need input on the choices.

I am not sure how many choices it will let me put on a poll here, but assuming it will allow enough, What I am thinking is you choose one from each category in the poll.

Rule 1: Truebox
- Truebox
- Multibox

Rule 2: Loot rules
- LIVE loot rules
- Live loot rules with % chance to get "Bind on Equip" raid drop
- FV loot rules
- FV loot rules except "Bind on Equip" instead of free trade

Rule 3: Rare drop rate
- Live drop rate
- Higher than Live drop rate

Rule 4: Mercenaries
- Available with Seeds of Destruction
- Available day one

Rule 5: Agent of Change Instances
- AoC instances
- No AoC instances

Rule 6: Race Unlock
- Match expansion they were introduced in
- All races available day one

Rule 7: Class Unlock
- Match expansion they were introduced in
- All classes available day one

Rule 8: Race/Class Combo Unlock
- Match expansion they were introduced in
- All Race/Class combos available day one

Rule 9: Expansion Unlock Rate
- 1 month
- 2 months
- 3 months
- 3/2 months (level increase/no level increase)
- Vote

Rule 10: Starting Expansion
- Classic
- Shadows of Luclin (beastlord start)
- Omens of War (berserker start)
- House of Thule

Rule 11: Experience Rate
- Same as Live
- Slower than Live
- Faster than Live

Rule 12: AA Auto-grant
- None
- 2 expansions after
- 3 expansions after
- 4 expansions after

You would get 12 choices to make, if you want to make more than one choice in a given category, that just means you don't get to make a choice in some other category.

Anything that should be added?
 
yerm

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
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17,428
Please just ditch the entire "chance" for tradeable idea. Go nuts with the rest.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
10,705
11,366
Not that I really care, Pharone Pharone , but where are you going with this? What are you trying to achieve with the polls? I'm suggesting you that you "dont" make a new poll. If you can make a poll that has no immediate impact on the whim that it "may" get noticed by some developer, then what is to stop another forum poster from doing them same, then another, then another.
 
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