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Sanrith Descartes

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Closed out my CCIV puts for about breakeven on the gap up. My rational mind has convinced me that existing automakers (VW, Mercedes, F, GM etc) are going to crush the start ups with their sheer manufacturing prowess and ability to push prices down. I am wearing off EV manufacturers and sticking to suppliers in the space now.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Fogel Fogel you still bagholding VLDR? The $17.50 calls went crazy town today. I think the shorts are getting scared. I might close my calls out early to take advantage of this possible move up.

1619207292507.png
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Yeah I still have mine, thanks for the heads up
LAZR is crushing the shorts the last 2 days and I think this might be a move across the SPAC world as the dollars flow out of doggiecoin and back into meme stocks. VLDR has held $14 for the last couple of days.
 

Fogel

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LAZR is crushing the shorts the last 2 days and I think this might be a move across the SPAC world as the dollars flow out of doggiecoin and back into meme stocks. VLDR has held $14 for the last couple of days.
I've already seen the flow back into growth stocks and OTC as well
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Yeah I still have mine, thanks for the heads up
Looks like the shorts are starting to bail on meme stocks. VLDR up 10% today. LAZR up another 15%. All I had to do was sell covered calls and the stock explodes upwards :p
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Closed out the last of my LAZR puts on the big spike today. Only puts I have left open are PSTH and those might get closed out today if my limit hits. Only thing I currently have open are VLDR calls and BTWN calls.

edit: PSTH puts just closed out.
 
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Fogel

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I have VLDR, NGA, PSTH and CLSK puts, keeping them open for a little more profit. I also felt like gambling and bought a HYLN 1/20/23 10$ call
 
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Locnar

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Someone bought my 40 strike LAZR CCs. I wish them luck and hope they get assigned to them!
 
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Fogel

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I used to do mostly weekly options but have been interested in getting more involved in long term options

 

Fogel

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Blazin Blazin what's your experience with buying ~1 year calls? From reading the article, if you're bullish on a stock, it's a good way to buy larger exposure to the stock with less capital. The question is, what strike price do you buy, or does it make that big of a difference outside of the cost of the original call? For example MSFT is at 260 right now, if I wanted to buy a 1 year call on them, should I go right at the 260 strike versus a higher strike? A high strike will call will cost less but does it provide any other benefit as far as the intrinsic/extrinsic value?
 

Blazin

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Blazin Blazin what's your experience with buying ~1 year calls? From reading the article, if you're bullish on a stock, it's a good way to buy larger exposure to the stock with less capital. The question is, what strike price do you buy, or does it make that big of a difference outside of the cost of the original call? For example MSFT is at 260 right now, if I wanted to buy a 1 year call on them, should I go right at the 260 strike versus a higher strike? A high strike will call will cost less but does it provide any other benefit as far as the intrinsic/extrinsic value?
Part of going far out means you are giving up some of the upside. So a $260 call for March 22 is going to cost about $25 , meaning you don't even break even until $285. So it works when you are strongly bullish and are looking for 20-30%+. The way to combat that is to go deep in the money. This means the contract will cost a lot more but will have a much higher intrinsic value. So again using MSFT, you could buy a March'22 $200 strike for about $66. Now we have lowered your break even to $266 allowing you to participate in potential upside.

The cons to this is if MSFT crashes you now have a maximum loss of $66 a contract vs $25 a contract. This is still less than the max potential loss of buying the equity. You are still saving capital as well, since you are getting 100 shares of exposure for $6,600 instead of $26,000.

My personal opinion is that this is best done deep in the money. Yes it eats more capital but you don't have to bet on an outsized move in the stock to make money. Most small investors are going to do the opposite they are going to buy calls deep out of the money. Say the $320 strike for $6.50. They are then risking $650 bucks hoping the stock blows it out and goes into the money by next year. Stock goes to $340 at expiration and you make a profit of $1,350. So over 100% return. It depends on what your goal is people doing this know (or SHOULD know) they are risking the whole $650, and there is a strong chance their return will be a full capital loss for the chance at an outsized gain.
 

Blazin

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I just read the post you linked (probably should have done that first ) . It pretty much reiterates what I'm saying, with any option purchase whether long or short term you have to think about how much of the price is intrinsic or extrinsic. I think of it as a gradient, the gambler buys options that are 100% extrinsic, move the slider more towards cautionary investing and people will want to be buying options that have high intrinsic value. It's always weighing probabilities for positive outcomes vs the size returns that are possible.

I don't believe there is a right way or a wrong way, but there is a right way and wrong way for each of us individually. It needs to match your investing temperament since we are the biggest obstacle to our own success especially if we enter investments that are mismatched to our risk/reward tendencies. So it can work to take $100k and spread it out on good stocks that you believe in buying deep out of the money calls a year out. No matter what a good number of them will expire worthless losing 100% but if you choose well some will work and you have a chance at making significant returns on those to make up for the others.

Another investor may take that $100k and buy less names and go for the deep in the money options, where its more likely a significant number will expire in the money but returns on those positive hits may be more muted as a percent. To me it is classic tortious vs the hare. I know I don't need outsized gains to become very wealthy but I'm patient by nature. The gambler may loose interest and not achieve his goal doing it my way so he is better taking the chance.

Which one builds wealth better overtime? Obviously I'm bias, but my opinion is that the tortious wins in the aggregate but there will always be the select few who beat the odds, so as Clint says "Do you feel lucky?"
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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I just read the post you linked (probably should have done that first ) . It pretty much reiterates what I'm saying, with any option purchase whether long or short term you have to think about how much of the price is intrinsic or extrinsic. I think of it as a gradient, the gambler buys options that are 100% extrinsic, move the slider more towards cautionary investing and people will want to be buying options that have high intrinsic value. It's always weighing probabilities for positive outcomes vs the size returns that are possible.

I don't believe there is a right way or a wrong way, but there is a right way and wrong way for each of us individually. It needs to match your investing temperament since we are the biggest obstacle to our own success especially if we enter investments that are mismatched to our risk/reward tendencies. So it can work to take $100k and spread it out on good stocks that you believe in buying deep out of the money calls a year out. No matter what a good number of them will expire worthless losing 100% but if you choose well some will work and you have a chance at making significant returns on those to make up for the others.

Another investor may take that $100k and buy less names and go for the deep in the money options, where its more likely a significant number will expire in the money but returns on those positive hits may be more muted as a percent. To me it is classic tortious vs the hare. I know I don't need outsized gains to become very wealthy but I'm patient by nature. The gambler may loose interest and not achieve his goal doing it my way so he is better taking the chance.

Which one builds wealth better overtime? Obviously I'm bias, but my opinion is that the tortious wins in the aggregate but there will always be the select few who beat the odds, so as Clint says "Do you feel lucky?"
Thank you for this post. It really does hit the nail on the head. The vast majority of my trades that went belly-up are trades that went against my investing grain. I almost always go with the deep out-of-the-money options to minimize my risk on capital. I think I am less than 50/50 when I go with in-the-money options trades. It could be that my research is da poop though. I guess I am just a shitty gambler but a semi-competent investor.
 

Fogel

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PINS had a big drop after earnings. I think it's over sold. Testing out buying long term calls, I bought the 11/19/21 70$ strike at 10.10. It's hit 85 several times, so if it goes back up to 85 with a delta of .55 from its current 67, the call would go up by 9.90, for almost 100% return. My math check out?
 

Fogel

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Finally closed my psth 22.5 for 0.15, still holding my CLSK 17.5's
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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Closed out my covered calls on VLDR. Lowered my cost basis 35 cents down to about $15.50. Will re-write on the next move up when the shorts close their positions again. The slow dance to profitability on this dog has begun.
 
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Fogel

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Closed my VLDR calls as well. Sold PLTR put 5/14 @22 for 0.86
 
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