F1 2013 Season
- Thread starter Empala_sl
- Start date
The biggest loser may be Christian Horner; if he can't control his drivers then he can't do his job. When Webber leaves Red Bull will have a job finding someone as quick as him because every driver will know Vettel runs the team and not Horner. If Horner tries to assert authority and suspend Vettel for one race for disobeying team orders (which under normal circumstances is the accepted punishment), then Helmut Marko will likely have Horner's head on a plate.
If I was Webber would I race hard? No. I'd drive for low positions for the rest of the season and hit Red Bull where it hurts. He'll be on his way at the end of the season anyway,
If I was Webber would I race hard? No. I'd drive for low positions for the rest of the season and hit Red Bull where it hurts. He'll be on his way at the end of the season anyway,
Ronaan
Molten Core Raider
- 1,092
- 436
I don't get all the whining about Vettel/Webber really. A few years ago, wasn't there some team with the unwritten rule of "he who wins qualifying shall be #1 for the race"?
Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks.
Either way, Rosberg followed team orders and look what he got. 4th place and a pat on the back.
Fuck team orders, we had that in the 90s where teams had a #1 and a robot to hold off the competition. Let the faster guy drive faster. And if Vettel's engine blows up next race because he rode it too hard, well, tough shit.
Maybe it's just my mind playing tricks.
Either way, Rosberg followed team orders and look what he got. 4th place and a pat on the back.
Fuck team orders, we had that in the 90s where teams had a #1 and a robot to hold off the competition. Let the faster guy drive faster. And if Vettel's engine blows up next race because he rode it too hard, well, tough shit.
I'd much prefer a team order of "race, but don't fucking crash" than the shit that happened. If Rosberg got ahead and then had to slow down and got repassed, so be it. Same goes for Vet/Web. As long as they avoid repeating Turkey, this boring train in the top 4 was bullshit. Vettel passing Webber was exciting as hell to watch.
But that's the problem. There was a rule, and not even an unwritten one, and Vettel unilaterally decided to break it. It's not the rule itself that's important, it's the fact that Vettel has decided that if he doesn't like a rule, he won't follow it.
In the short term, yes. In the long run it depends how fair the team are to him. Mercedes could turn him into Massa mark 2. Or they could just do the same to Hamilton if the positions are reversed next time. We'll have to wait and see.
All the fans want that, but unfortunately the teams don't. A few years ago it was explained to me how the teams are far more interested in the cars than the drivers. If you try to ban team orders you just get the ridiculous "Fernando is faster than you" "coded" messages. The only way it won't happen is if each team had one car per race, and there are barely enough cars as it is.
The real money, the money that keeps the circus chugging along is the Constructors championship money. That's why Red Bull and Mercedes were both wanting to protect their points investments. That was the highest total in a single race for Merc since they rejoined the sport in 2010. There's no point at all in trying to stop team orders, they've always been there, they just don't need to pretend otherwise anymore.
As for exciting to watch, maybe so but it wasn't even on a level playing field, Webbers engine was turned down and it still took the petulant child almost 3 laps to get past Webber and even then Webber just ended up pulling out of the wheel to wheel and letting him pass.
Almost all of the Vettel defenders haven't addressed Vettel wanting team orders earlier in the race so he could pass Webber as he couldn't do it himself on the track.
McLaren and Force India must be laughing themselves silly this morning, instead of them being lambasted by everyone for shitty pitstops all the negative publicity is aimed at RBR. McL are 7th in the constructors championship with 4 points from 2 races, fuck me.
Bianchi looks fantastic, early tip to be #2 Alonso at Ferrari next year?
As for exciting to watch, maybe so but it wasn't even on a level playing field, Webbers engine was turned down and it still took the petulant child almost 3 laps to get past Webber and even then Webber just ended up pulling out of the wheel to wheel and letting him pass.
Almost all of the Vettel defenders haven't addressed Vettel wanting team orders earlier in the race so he could pass Webber as he couldn't do it himself on the track.
McLaren and Force India must be laughing themselves silly this morning, instead of them being lambasted by everyone for shitty pitstops all the negative publicity is aimed at RBR. McL are 7th in the constructors championship with 4 points from 2 races, fuck me.
Bianchi looks fantastic, early tip to be #2 Alonso at Ferrari next year?
The McLaren looked a lot better on a nice flat track. It would have been uncomfortable for the Mercs if Button hadn't had the pit lane disaster, but then such mishaps were the bane of McLaren last season. I'm not sure where Lotus lost their pace between practice and qualifying, but they did manage only three stops so they do look to be easy on the tyres. Force India need to check their nuts
At that point, he was obeying team orders by not racing. I don't see the issue with his asking; Rosberg had similar complaints that the car in front was too slow. After the last pit, Vettel obviously got some red mist and just went for it. Classless and unsporting? Yeah. But Webber did the same shit in 2011, so he shouldn't be so damn upset about it. Shit happens when you're in the heat of the moment. Watching racing wouldn't be fun if all the drivers were cool and levelheaded all the time.
It was more showing that he was asking for orders to benefit him earlier and then decided he was going to ignore the pre-race agreed orders so he didn't show any consistency. I will say though, in all fairness, if it was Jenson who'd done it to someone else I'd probably be more onboard with it
James Allen made a point in his column today that despite the shenanigans that the likes of Senna, Schumacher etc got up to, they never ignored an order from the team bosses. Chances are they wouldn't have got many anyway but still!
When he gets into his regular radio crybaby routine Vettel should learn to mix in some swearing as they don't broadcast it then, a lot of teams do that deliberately to stop their chitchat being broadcast to the world.
Buttons pace between changing onto dry tyres and the pit stop from hell had him roughly half a second a lap down on the leaders at worst and often lapping around the same times, he'd have deffo ended up mixed in with the Mercs by the end of the race with him making one less pitstop and would have made it a very tricky call for Brawn to decide which car to make go faster and risk running out of fuel. They must have badly predicted how long the rain would last with the amount they underfuelled the cars.I'm not sure where Lotus lost their pace between practice and qualifying, but they did manage only three stops so they do look to be easy on the tyres.
Force India need to check their nutsYou'd think they would have tested them in high temperatures.
Gary Anderson reckons both Lotus' were having problems with the back end making it a real handful in some of the corners.
Yeah the Farce India lugnuts were woefully QA'd, the gun was heating them up to the point where they effectively were welding into place! I'm sure I saw one of the mechanics in the later pitstop actually twatting the wheel area with a hammer
It used to be after this happened in the disgracefully lopsided Ferrari/Schumacher dominance years :
(Edit - There's no commentary: basically Barichello was leading and told to get out of the way and let Schumacher win. Barichello trolled the fuck out of everyone by blatantly leaving it until literally yards from the finish line before he did so)
It still went on but they were a lot craftier about it, then this happened in 2010: (From 16-17 seconds in)
The team bosses said they were fed up of trying to hide what they wanted to do and the FIA agreed and removed the official ban on team orders. As has been argued on this page, the bosses want it because they would rather secure the points 99% of the time than allow their drivers to race wheel to wheel and risk a Turkey 2010 type situation.
Do you guys even watch F1 much or do you have really short memories? Webber pretty much gives fuck all about team orders and only obeys them when he is slower anyway.
You seriously think that teams suspend their drivers lol? When the fuck has that ever happened? Certainly not after these incidents:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106372
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...lverstone.html
From the article you quoted:
"Although drivers so blatantly ignoring team orders is rare"
You don't get many punishments handed out because in every other team, the drivers do as they are told. Red Bull seems to be the exception at the moment, because Horner is weak.
As for examples from the past, the only one that I can think of right now is Alan Prost when he was at Ferrari, but that was for not following orders off the track, not on it. He was critical of the car and the way the team was run to reporters after a couple of races. He wasn't suspended, he was fired, mid-season.
Ronaan
Molten Core Raider
- 1,092
- 436
Another different perspective on the saga by Darren Heath, an F1 photographer:http://www.darrenheath.com/season/20...multi-meltdown
Heaths article was bollocks, not even close to the real situation unlike the earlier one you linked. As has been pointed out again and again, even the likes of Senna and Schumacher did as they were told and you're not telling me Schumacher didn't rule Ferrari for 6 years. Shit, he could have had them build the equivalent of the Homermobile and sell it on the forecourt and they'd have agreed. However when asked to do something, he did it.
What happened at the weekend is almost new territory for a big team, that's why it's a big deal. No shit Sherlock Heath that world champions have drive and aggression. They still know who is paying the fucking bills though! If they had been allowed to race properly Vettel would probably have got past him eventually, that's not what happened though and if he thinks that won't cause him grief in the long term he is even more naive than we already thought.
While we are on this subject, anyone else getting plain tired of Kimi and his "edgy" act and just think he's a disrespectful twat who also doesn't seem to give a toot that he is being paid millions to do a job? If he doesn't like being paid to be interviewed about a sport followed by hundreds of millions worldwide why doesn't he fuck off back to his vodka factory? The interview he did at the weekend with Lee McKenzie was nothing short of a disgrace, it wasn't edgy, it wasn't cool, it was him being nothing but a wanker.
/rant
Two more weeks to China >.< Ron Howard needs to hurry up and get his Hunt/Lauda film finished, I can't wait to see that.
What happened at the weekend is almost new territory for a big team, that's why it's a big deal. No shit Sherlock Heath that world champions have drive and aggression. They still know who is paying the fucking bills though! If they had been allowed to race properly Vettel would probably have got past him eventually, that's not what happened though and if he thinks that won't cause him grief in the long term he is even more naive than we already thought.
While we are on this subject, anyone else getting plain tired of Kimi and his "edgy" act and just think he's a disrespectful twat who also doesn't seem to give a toot that he is being paid millions to do a job? If he doesn't like being paid to be interviewed about a sport followed by hundreds of millions worldwide why doesn't he fuck off back to his vodka factory? The interview he did at the weekend with Lee McKenzie was nothing short of a disgrace, it wasn't edgy, it wasn't cool, it was him being nothing but a wanker.
/rant
Two more weeks to China >.< Ron Howard needs to hurry up and get his Hunt/Lauda film finished, I can't wait to see that.