Fallout 4

Vorph

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That's true as well, though it's kind of odd how little difference there is between 80 (.308 combat) and 155 (short barrel plasma rifle). If the .308 has 80% to hit, the plasma will still only be like 87%. All that really seems to matter is that you're within the effective range.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Yes, more or less. I have 14 PE and torso shots are 95% from pretty damn far away, and almost anything that actually has a torso will die to my .50 sniper or .308 combat rifle (both are Two Shot mods, since I have had zero luck at getting a single instigating legendary, let alone one on a weapon I can actually use). I just finally did the USS Constitution stuff last night, and killed like 10 scavengers in two rounds of VATS shooting from the deck to the street far below, using my .308 (185 AP = 7 shots queued). All torso shots except for crits on the legendary ones. Completely trivial of course, but it was still fun watching it happen.

Plus you have to take into account the crit perks. I almost always have 4 banked, with a 35% chance per kill to fill the bar, a 14% chance per shot to bank 1 (possibly 2), and 9 LK filling the bar pretty damn fast on its own. Accuracy is really never an issue.
I got an instigating shishekebob yesterday. I got excited when I got it thinking I finally had a weapon for a good stealth melee build, but nope.

So am I wrong is the two-shot combat rifle you can just buy from the vault one of the best weapons in the game? It's hard to imagine an optimal playthrough not being to get that rifle asap.
 

Vorph

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Overseer's Guardian is #1 buyable for sure. For commando instead of rifleman, Spray n Pray is ridiculously good too. Can only buy instigating laser and plasma, and not being able to silence them ruins it.
 

Caliane

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yeah. overseers is by far the best.
I did just get an instigating hunting rifle yesterday. need to mod it into a .50. but,the recoil, and fire rate doesn't really even make it worth it.
 

Sludig

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Sorry since I know it's in the long thread somewhere.

But I think I saw/heard theres a fix out for some of the crit perk stuff acting wierd? I've had problems with grim reapers and feels like even 4 leaf clover acting weird and basically not being effective.

FWIW. I'm on very hard.. and while after doing all the cracking/crafting perks, and a few levels ago doing crit tree stuff. I have 0 points in any +dmg boost perks. (Get stupid about omg which to choose i have such a variety) So far I'm doing just fine, I'm kinda suprised it wasn't harder without having to amp my damage to crazy levels to combat bullet sponge. Mainly only irritant is occasional non skull non legend mobs that seem to 2 shot me and as others mentioned the amount of missiles and infinite grenade spam at times.
 

Tenks

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Survivalist seems like it should be the "default" difficulty. I'd suggest playing on that. The inability to cheese encounters by healing back to full almost instantly makes the game far more enjoyable.
 

Vorph

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Sorry since I know it's in the long thread somewhere.

But I think I saw/heard theres a fix out for some of the crit perk stuff acting wierd? I've had problems with grim reapers and feels like even 4 leaf clover acting weird and basically not being effective.

FWIW. I'm on very hard.. and while after doing all the cracking/crafting perks, and a few levels ago doing crit tree stuff. I have 0 points in any +dmg boost perks. (Get stupid about omg which to choose i have such a variety) So far I'm doing just fine, I'm kinda suprised it wasn't harder without having to amp my damage to crazy levels to combat bullet sponge. Mainly only irritant is occasional non skull non legend mobs that seem to 2 shot me and as others mentioned the amount of missiles and infinite grenade spam at times.
Simple Bug Fixes at Fallout 4 Nexus - Mods and community

It's just Grim Reaper 3 that's bugged though. Four Leaf Clover works fine, 8/10/12/14% chance per hit. I definitely suggest choosing a weapon type (rifleman unless you want a handicap) and picking up Ninja if you don't already have it.

And yeah, Survival is the only difficulty worth playing on.
 

Tuco

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I played survival through the entire playthrough, but it can be too hard for a typical player at the start of the game, especially if their build is bad or they get unlucky with loot.

I added that mod I linked previously that bumps up the encounter difficulty, it hasn't taken effect yet that I can tell, maybe I should sleep for two weeks or go to an area I haven't been to.
 

Phazael

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Being most of the way through my second, mele/punching/pistol play, I agree with most of what Vorph said. You need not actually buy any ranks of stealth (AG9 and a couple magazines and/or chameleon pieces do enough), but you damn well better have blitz and be using basic stealth to close in. Pure mele will never work, because some fights demand ranged solutions (Suiciders, high mounted turrets, Mirelurk Queens), so minoring in pistols or explosives is essential. While I have not been able to obtain the Instigating weapons to experiment with, I do have most of the other key ones out there. For reference, I have Mele 4, Unarmed 4, Bloody Mess 3, Blitz 2, and most of the crafting perks.

Pickmans- Easy to obtain early and a solid weapon, until you get around 20-30 and can attempt getting something better. Its fast and, if you do the ping pong blitz thing, fairly powerful for the early levels. It does most of its work by the Bleed damage, so for harder fights, you may need to pick away at an enemy and then run for cover.

Super Sledge- Buyable early and good if you are not doing the VATS thing. Comes into its own a little when you get the AE mele perk, but still too slow to be useful after a certain point. Great companion weapon, though.

Kremvh's Tooth- Get this thing the moment you can. Right out of the box it is on par with the best weapons in the game. I have not found another legendary machete to place the mod on, but its not hard to figure out that the moment you do this weapon instantly becomes the best mele weapon in the game. It also has the added bonus of being the fastest mele weapon you can use in powered armor (outside of fisticuffs).

Named Bat from Diamond City Vendor- Modded up, this is probably one of the better weapons I have used. It does damage on par with most two handed weapons, but with the 40% VATS cost reduction you can actual get more swings off with a full bar than when using Pickmans. Around the time you are perked up for mele (say, 25-35), this is the best weapon out there that does not require a luck based legendary drop to happen. I was genuinely shocked at how good this weapon turned out to be.

2076 World Series Bat- Obtainable from a fairly rough area (for a mele specialist) behind some major locks (Cait can beat them all), you would think his bat would be better than the one you can snag off of the vendor. It is a lot of fun to send dudes flying miles away, but it does not out perform the vendor bat and occasionally bugs VATS if you launch guys. The one cool thing with it is that the proc happens a lot more in real time combat and with high luck, which when combined with AE mele weapon perk can send packs of ghouls into the stands. Fun to play around with, but you will undoubtedly have a better weapon by the time you can get this one.

Named Quest Deathclaw Guantlet- I forget what quest drops it, but there is a named gauntlet you get that refills your AP on a crit, which is needless to say beyond broken if you have a lot of the luck based perks stacked with it, as you can have a never ending chain of VAT and Crits going on. Only issue is it is a tad heavy on its AP cost and sometimes you just can't get the synergy going with it. Its still a pretty good weapon, if Unarmed is your thing.

Named Power Fist quest drop- I think this one drops from the main quest chain, but its a Power Fist that does progressively more damage with each hit on the same target. With a high enough AP pool, you can go toe to toe with nearly any enemy that exists in the game, even on survival, but if you are heavily invested in Luck the Deathclaw Guantlet I mentioned is better. At the point I am at, it is a toss up between this thing modded up or the named bat I bought off of the guy in Diamond City. Both are damn effective, especially with Blitz ping ponging. The basic power fist is not really that good, but this weapon is worth it for the special effect.

Bare Hands- Stack the Jacket from the Atom Cats and any other similar gear at high levels and you will see this actually do some serious damage, though not enough against seriously armored guys. Unfortunately, you need a high luck and to Unarmed 5 to get the full power out of this, but if you do go this route the payoff is pretty good. ITs just a rough path getting there. When power armor cheesing, the mele reflect mod (or Tesla) combined with all the arm upgrades makes this the easiest and cheesiest combat in the whole game (and that's saying something) because of how cheap punch attacks are in VATS. The major upside is that the VATS animations are awesome and spammed fists will (at mid levels of unarmed) nearly always disarm your opponent, which can trivialize several difficult fights (Kellogg for one) in the mid game. You pretty much have to suck down the chems like water on survival, outside of power armor, to be doing this though.

On mele in general, I don't think there is any magical requirements to pull it off and make it workable except for one. Blitz (and by extension AGI 9) is a must have perk. Do not even bother trying to mele without it. Further, once you get the second rank at 29, you can do intentional ping pongs in vats (targeting to separated enemies alternating them) to cash in on the charge damage bonus, which is often more than the base damage of the weapon you may be using. The side benefit of taking Blitz is that you won't really need to invest in the sneak perk, as your base AGI will give you enough to close into blitz range most of the time. Another good tip is to throw grenades into groups before engaging, if stealth is not an option. The stagger effect from the explosion will give you some time to apply VATS beatdown without getting retaliated against as much. Finally, there are times when real time attacks are superior to VATS, mostly once you have the AE mele weapon perk. Standing firm in a hallway chokepoint and swinging at multiple ferals as they come at you in groups will occasionally yield better results than spamming VATS, which can put you out of position a lot.
 

Tenks

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I played survival through the entire playthrough, but it can be too hard for a typical player at the start of the game, especially if their build is bad or they get unlucky with loot.

I added that mod I linked previously that bumps up the encounter difficulty, it hasn't taken effect yet that I can tell, maybe I should sleep for two weeks or go to an area I haven't been to.
My sneak/sniper was getting shit fuck for loot and it was a bit of a pain but I managed. I mean outside of Gun Nut 2'ing mods I was using the Pipe Sniper you find at the museum until I could buy Tinker Tom's weapons while joining the Rail Road. Maybe not Survivalist on your first character until you really get some of the mechanics but after that the other modes feel too easy.
 

Tenks

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On mele in general, I don't think there is any magical requirements to pull it off and make it workable except for one. Blitz (and by extension AGI 9) is a must have perk.
My melee dude had no AGI and worked out just fine. Once you get some of the DR nodes you can just charge into encounters and take hardly any damage then just heal up by eating corpses afterwards. I just made sure to always have a full crit meter so I could easily just kill Legendaries in a VATS cycle (it helps if you get Military Fatigues to get +2 AGI for more AP which gave me two swings of the Sledge in a VATS cycle.) If you get a Legendary where it increases your damage while standing still and the STR9 perk you can one-shot almost everything with a non-power swing. And if you don't one-shot them they're heavily crippled.
 

Phazael

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Vorph_sl said:
And yeah, Survival is the only difficulty worth playing on.
If you are playing on VH, you might as well play Survival. But I do disagree with rifleman being the best weapon choice. After further play, I really think Pistol is the most powerful option in the game, with mods of course. You miss out on exactly one good weapon going with pistols (EC Rifles) and kind of miss out on the early game shotgun crutch to an extent, but the range boost on Pistols makes them stupidly more effective than their rifle counterparts in every other instance. In fact, on Survival, you can get a double damage to full health laser weapon fairly early, mod it full up with Science 2 or 3, and have a 400 range sniper weapon that does in excess of 900 damage with sighted head shots, without even taking any ranks in Ninja. And a two shot plasma pistol is quite simply the most efficient weapon in the entire game, while sporting a range almost double that of the best sniper rifle out there.

Rifles are VERY good, especially early on with the combat shotgun being so dominating, but I think overall the pistol skill trumps it.
 

Tenks

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I got my first ever Chameleon piece last night on my sneak/sniper and that mod is pretty stupid OP. Not sure who decided to make it so you effectively gain a stealth boy by just standing still.
 

Phazael

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My melee dude had no AGI and worked out just fine. Once you get some of the DR nodes you can just charge into encounters and take hardly any damage then just heal up by eating corpses afterwards. I just made sure to always have a full crit meter so I could easily just kill Legendaries in a VATS cycle (it helps if you get Military Fatigues to get +2 AGI for more AP which gave me two swings of the Sledge in a VATS cycle.) If you get a Legendary where it increases your damage while standing still and the STR9 perk you can one-shot almost everything with a non-power swing. And if you don't one-shot them they're heavily crippled.
Were you playing on Survival? Because I found that without Blitz, it was nearly impossible to get a VATS bead on thing before I got mauled (especially flying bug type things) on Survival. If not, then great that there is an alternative to AG9 for mele enthusiasts. I actually went the other direction (S4, P4, E1, C1, I5, A9, L4 before bobbles) and focused on action points and raw damage. I am guessing you most likely took sneak ranks to compensate?
 

Tenks

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Were you playing on Survival? Because I found that without Blitz, it was nearly impossible to get a VATS bead on thing before I got mauled (especially flying bug type things) on Survival. If not, then great that there is an alternative to AG9 for mele enthusiasts. I actually went the other direction (S4, P4, E1, C1, I5, A9, L4 before bobbles) and focused on action points and raw damage. I am guessing you most likely took sneak ranks to compensate?
Yes I was on Survival. I don't recall my exact build but I think it was like S9, P1, E9, C1, I2, A1, L5. Not sure if that adds up correctly but it was something like that. No sneaking required just running up to fools and smashing their skulls in.

-edit-

Also wasn't cheesing by using power armor for everything. That made things even more trivial. Only time I'd actually load up in PA is if I didn't feel like dealing with some bullshit (most notable the Castle boss.)
 

Cybsled

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I got my first ever Chameleon piece last night on my sneak/sniper and that mod is pretty stupid OP. Not sure who decided to make it so you effectively gain a stealth boy by just standing still.
Only downside is your Pipboy is virtually unusable while in chameleon mode, so you have to pop out of sneak for a second to be able to effectively navigate it.
 

Vorph

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Chameleon is pretty useless anyway, especially considering the way it messes up the pip-boy, gun sights, etc. Noise is what gets you detected most of the time until you get Sneak 4, and at that point you don't need any help to be practically invisible.

Also, chameleon is only 20% as effective as an actual stealth boy.
 

Sludig

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Simple Bug Fixes at Fallout 4 Nexus - Mods and community

It's just Grim Reaper 3 that's bugged though. Four Leaf Clover works fine, 8/10/12/14% chance per hit. I definitely suggest choosing a weapon type (rifleman unless you want a handicap) and picking up Ninja if you don't already have it.

And yeah, Survival is the only difficulty worth playing on.
Thanks,

I might bump up to survival, but I'm still pre diamond city lv 25, most of the time I just try to play smart and avoid taking damage. If I run into one of those groups of 4-5 mobs I'll sneak and try to get a fatman/missile off and generally makes it easy. So didnt quite feel I'd lose much on the healing front as it's not usually under a lot of pressure. Really almost boils down to you fucked up your dead fast, otherwise with smart play I eliminate threats before being at 10% saying oh shit oh shit trying to heal and still fight. Maybe metal gear solid taught me better bushwhacking skills I dont know.

Aside from the mass explosion sneaking though, I dont really stealth much, so not sure how much ninja is going to help me.

I guess grim reapers isnt a full bar of AP then? Ill kill something and I'll have bar only like 1/3rd filled. But felt like sometimes I'd use a crit, four leaf would proc, but yet, afterwords I'd still have 0 AP/crits leftover. Stuff like that.
 

Sludig

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@ another poster. Yes I agree in some ways pistols trump all. At least using vats. My 10mm auto piercing pistol just hip fired lasted a long time prior to very hard, then the singe shot 35 dmg single shot also lasted me quite a while doing the matrix vats mode 3 headshots for everyone thing.

It's insane that to date my most effective sniper has been a pistol grip bolt action pipe gun. Long light barrel gives adequate (180) range. In vats I would get 4 or so shots with it vs 2 if your lucky on any other sniper kitted out like youd expect one to be. With reflex sight I could still sniper if I squint. I found one with %15 cheaper vats, and suddenly I was getting like 6-7 shots. So after opening up sniping, any survivors could be torso shotted down or if reasonably close, a chain of headshots.

The extreme penalties for stocks and scopes just kills vats play for longarms. Other weapon balance seemed wonky, like my pipe rifle did 54 dmg, a top .308 hunter/sniper did like 59....... make them both .50 and it was like 57 to 64. Wooo what a huge leap in damage for .50cal wtf. Then that they are so similiar in damage, is a joke. With only science 1 mods, I could make a laser pistol long barrel that did more dmg and more range....

Combat rifle so far has been alright but not exciting. I hate the lazy use the combat shotgun graphics and silly that it supposedly uses .45 doesn't make sense as a gun person. I hate that the assault rifle (which I am gunnut 3 or 4 restricted atm) I can't seem to find a combo of mods that's effective at all.