Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Folanlron

Folanlron

Trakanon Raider
2,220
639
See Necromancer Epic 2.0.. They literally had to nerf the effect from the weapon, in order to force a upgrade.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
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Cleric epic for res, enchanter epic for slow, and monk epic for haste all come to mind as well. Some of that shit was still being used in PoP after coming out in Kunark
 
Folanlron

Folanlron

Trakanon Raider
2,220
639
If I remember right they nerfed the Necro 2.0 effect, recently I don't remember when the 2.0 Epics came out, but a lot of Necromancers are still pissed about it.
 
S

Sythrak

Vyemm Raider
261
623
Necro they just added a level decay to it, which they probably should have done 20 years ago.

Those items you never forgot though.
 
Koushirou

Koushirou

Log Wizard
<Gold Donor>
4,870
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Looks like they’re changing it up a bit, at least. Hopefully not quite as painful to farm. Was hoping there’d be another gwiber in the rewards. Darn it. I gotta go do those EXs eventually.
 
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...

Goonsquad Officer
5,708
13,692
Folanlron said:
See Necromancer Epic 2.0.. They literally had to nerf the effect from the weapon, in order to force a upgrade.
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I memba in eq2 all epics had a click, evenetuall6 they let you turn it into a button on your hot bar so you cared about new gear
 
Chysamere

Chysamere

<WoW Guild Officer>
3,322
2,940
They might run into the same problem with the current crafter/gatherer relics, which have effects that seriously buff them to be more powerful than their ilvl or stats alone.
 
Folanlron

Folanlron

Trakanon Raider
2,220
639
Chysamere said:
They might run into the same problem with the current crafter/gatherer relics, which have effects that seriously buff them to be more powerful than their ilvl or stats alone.
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ehh enhanced collectable is nice but the new crafter/gather relics are as not as OP as you think.
 
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,115
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Chysamere said:
I never said OP. I said seriously buff. I think it's enough that they will may be better than Dawntrail initial whites, especially for expert crafts. 1.75x on Good is nothing to sneeze at.
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Well the entire point of the effect was mainly to use them on expert crafts, to the point where they weren't better than normal crafted pentamelded gear until basically the last upgrade for non expert stuff.

I have doubts they are better than the level 99/100 white set, though, even with the bonus on Good. Likely run into craftmanship issues if you try using level 90 item on level 100 crafts.
 
Folanlron

Folanlron

Trakanon Raider
2,220
639
Ya you will not be able to hit the new numbers needed for the next set of crafts using the current relics, it is the way the system is designed.
 
Pyros

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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Folanlron said:
Ya you will not be able to hit the new numbers needed for the next set of crafts using the current relics, it is the way the system is designed.
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Next set of expert crafts maybe, but generally speaking it'd be pretty easy to hit the requirements for the next cap normal items even using old tools if you upgrade the rest of the gear.

Since I was bored I went and checked and that was the case with last expansion too. If you use Skybuilder tools, using expensive enough melds you can easily reach the prerequirements for every tier of crafting, including the most recent stuff(Diadochos gear and what not). It does force you into more and more melds as you go through the patches but for 6.0 and 6.2 reqs it's actually quite easy even with somewhat average melds, for 6.4 stuff you need to be a bit more forceful if you want to use CP food.

Obviously there's still the tradeoff that if you had that many melds with a "real" tool, you'd have a lot more stats over the minimums, which would let you either cut HQ mats or a fair amount of steps, which would make it easier to mass craft, but it is a fact at least that you could use the current relic tools all throughout the next expansion for normal crafting if it follows this pattern. Expert crafts having way higher requirements than the normal gear though means they could easily make them so they're simply out of range of the new tools, it wouldn't be too hard, but the first tier of expert crafting might be within reach due to the necessity of making expert craft doable even if you don't have perfect pentamelds(which in turns means perfect pentamelds with a lower main hand tool would still reach the reqs). Second tier would be far out of reach most likely though since main hand has so many stats on it.
 
Merrith

Merrith

Golden Baronet of the Realm
18,115
6,923
Pyros said:
Next set of expert crafts maybe, but generally speaking it'd be pretty easy to hit the requirements for the next cap normal items even using old tools if you upgrade the rest of the gear.

Since I was bored I went and checked and that was the case with last expansion too. If you use Skybuilder tools, using expensive enough melds you can easily reach the prerequirements for every tier of crafting, including the most recent stuff(Diadochos gear and what not). It does force you into more and more melds as you go through the patches but for 6.0 and 6.2 reqs it's actually quite easy even with somewhat average melds, for 6.4 stuff you need to be a bit more forceful if you want to use CP food.

Obviously there's still the tradeoff that if you had that many melds with a "real" tool, you'd have a lot more stats over the minimums, which would let you either cut HQ mats or a fair amount of steps, which would make it easier to mass craft, but it is a fact at least that you could use the current relic tools all throughout the next expansion for normal crafting if it follows this pattern. Expert crafts having way higher requirements than the normal gear though means they could easily make them so they're simply out of range of the new tools, it wouldn't be too hard, but the first tier of expert crafting might be within reach due to the necessity of making expert craft doable even if you don't have perfect pentamelds(which in turns means perfect pentamelds with a lower main hand tool would still reach the reqs). Second tier would be far out of reach most likely though since main hand has so many stats on it.
Click to expand...

When did they squish the stats for crafting, though? Not that squished stats may not affect this final tier into next expansion, but it might not have worked with the old crafting stats if they squished prior to Endwalker (I can't remember when exactly they squished).

Also removal of belts in general. Not many stats, but even more of a variable change for figuring out the actual math.
 
Pyros

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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Merrith said:
When did they squish the stats for crafting, though? Not that squished stats may not affect this final tier into next expansion, but it might not have worked with the old crafting stats if they squished prior to Endwalker (I can't remember when exactly they squished).

Also removal of belts in general. Not many stats, but even more of a variable change for figuring out the actual math.
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Fuck if I remember, you might be right but I don't know, the stats aren't that different overall for the first tier at least, even in older expansions you could use pentamelded gear to make x.0 gear without upgrading anything or doing small upgrades. I think it will eventually fall off naturally obviously but I don't think they have too much incentive making sure it's dead for 7.0, they might kill it by 7.2 or 7.4 instead. The advantage would likely be minor anyway with the stats difference, and while you don't have to meld it, the questline being what it is it wouldn't be worth it for new players to make it so probably fine?
 
Folanlron

Folanlron

Trakanon Raider
2,220
639
Pyros said:
Next set of expert crafts maybe, but generally speaking it'd be pretty easy to hit the requirements for the next cap normal items even using old tools if you upgrade the rest of the gear.

Since I was bored I went and checked and that was the case with last expansion too. If you use Skybuilder tools, using expensive enough melds you can easily reach the prerequirements for every tier of crafting, including the most recent stuff(Diadochos gear and what not). It does force you into more and more melds as you go through the patches but for 6.0 and 6.2 reqs it's actually quite easy even with somewhat average melds, for 6.4 stuff you need to be a bit more forceful if you want to use CP food.

Obviously there's still the tradeoff that if you had that many melds with a "real" tool, you'd have a lot more stats over the minimums, which would let you either cut HQ mats or a fair amount of steps, which would make it easier to mass craft, but it is a fact at least that you could use the current relic tools all throughout the next expansion for normal crafting if it follows this pattern. Expert crafts having way higher requirements than the normal gear though means they could easily make them so they're simply out of range of the new tools, it wouldn't be too hard, but the first tier of expert crafting might be within reach due to the necessity of making expert craft doable even if you don't have perfect pentamelds(which in turns means perfect pentamelds with a lower main hand tool would still reach the reqs). Second tier would be far out of reach most likely though since main hand has so many stats on it.
Click to expand...

And I would call them a fucking idiot if they tried it.

Merrith said:
When did they squish the stats for crafting, though? Not that squished stats may not affect this final tier into next expansion, but it might not have worked with the old crafting stats if they squished prior to Endwalker (I can't remember when exactly they squished).

Also removal of belts in general. Not many stats, but even more of a variable change for figuring out the actual math.
Click to expand...

Stat squish/belt removal happened all at once, on EW release.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
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They should do rings next. Double stats on a ring and delete a ring slot. Solves a few issues

1) most raid drop or tome rings being unique flagged, which forces one ring slot to have a lower ilvl frequently
2) the massive storage requirements since each job needs 2 rings
 
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Zish

Zish

Trakanon Raider
46
20
Doesn't solve anything, actually only causes issues as both rings are visual slots and they would need to come up with a new system to deal with that.
 
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