Gender Integration in the Infantry, and how Robots fight Misogyny

Eidal

Eidal

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There has been serious pressure from the civilian overlords for full integration in all jobs previously closed to women. As it stands:

1) All branches have until January 1 2016 to ask for an exemption from full integration.

In the last few weeks:

2) The Marine Corps just wrapped up an extensive 40 million dollar test to simulate/observe/interpret the effects of integration on a unit. The conclusion was that mixed-gender teams overwhelmingly perform worse than all-male teams and that women get hurt considerably faster than men.Note: this was a simulation that didn't last nearly as long as an actual combat deployment would last. I suspect if you dragged this test out longer you'd see even higher rates of injury for women.

3) The Secretary of the Navy said earlier this week that he still plans to ask for no exemptions for the USMC/Navy. He insinuated that the women participating in the test weren't screened well enough.

4) A decorated E-9 (Sergeant Major) wrote a pissed off response about this on Facebook which he then took down. Quote: ("The best women in [the test] as a group in regard to infantry operations were equal or below in most all cases to the lowest 5 percent of men as a group in this test study...")

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5) Now, a Representative is calling for the SecNavs resignation.

Congressman calls for Navy secretary to resign as Marines women-in-combat feud escalates
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Listen you shitlord, my feels is stronger than any genetics and physical body differences and will allow me to put rounds on target just as accurately as any male!

khanjar_ii.jpg
 
Agraza

Agraza

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A christmas tree stand and a cast iron skillet it looks like. probably has a literal kitchen sink in the sack
 
A

a_skeleton_03

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Mortar baseplate I think. Could be some kind of directional antenna though for jamming systems. We have quite a few man pack versions but that wasn't my day to day working with those so I am not familiar with all of them by sight.

I have a Marine friend who had to be embedded into the Lioness team. They are an "all female" group for intel purposes to talk with locals that are uncomfortable with men. He was there because they were unable to properly man the Ma Deuce or MK-19's on the turrets of their up armored vehicles. He was in the turret and they were below just prattling away about nothing. It was the longest 6 month cycle he ever did in his life.
 
iannis

iannis

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Testing it further is fair.

In the meantime, not integrating the units is also fair, until the further testing is complete.

It may be that the screening of candidates was too lax. So run another wargame. It's not like anyone is going to be cutting funding anyway, lul.
 
TJT

TJT

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Eventually, a bunch of politicos are going to put the screws to the Marines/Army/ETC and fudge them through the tests in some way. There have been numerous studies showing even the most fit women unable to perform a wide variety of common infantry tasks. Unable to carry the load expectations is just one of them.

But they'll be in within five years or less. Right or wrong.
 
chthonic-anemos

chthonic-anemos

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
I have a Marine friend who had to be embedded into the Lioness team. They are an "all female" group for intel purposes to talk with locals that are uncomfortable with men. He was there because they were unable to properly man the Ma Deuce or MK-19's on the turrets of their up armored vehicles. He was in the turret and they were below just prattling away about nothing. It was the longest 6 month cycle he ever did in his life.
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There's an "I'm here if you need to talk." unit? looooooooooooooooooooooooooool
 
Borzak

Borzak

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The problem is in some cases these women are taking slots in a training course such as the rangers. We spend a great amount of money on training to be "the tip of the spear" and none of them will ever be allowed in combat.

Even if they performed every duty with the same efficiency as a male we're not going to send them into combat. At least right now. But we're spending money training them.
 
TJT

TJT

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I don't even think that's an issue. Unless you're infantry it is extremely hard to go to Ranger School if you're not an officer. Back in early 2006 I did the Pre Ranger Course on Fort Bragg and had no problem passing it. I still didn't get a slot because I wasn't infantry. If I wanted the opportunity to be told to fuck off again I would have to do the PRC course again, every time. Even if you get a slot your unit can still deny you from going. Anyone from the 82nd or on Bragg in general had to complete PRC before they would even be permitted to get a slot.

(PRC course was 3 weeks of "hell week." BTW)

That's not even mentioning the people who fail the course multiple times and get washed out from the PT exam before you even start.

And the Ranger Battalion is "tip of the spear," there are countless rangers throughout the Army that have never actually been in the Ranger Bat. Way more than is actually in the Ranger Bat. Women can already get Sapper tabs and shit too so I don't really see a problem with it at all. Ranger school is a leadership/endurance course and infantry tactics. Not being combat arms and going is already par the course.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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i am no feminist by any means, but what exactly are women failing at? the carrying their gear? why does their gear have to be the same weight as men? they are smaller, so give them smaller things to carry? i know a lot of chicks who are great runners and a fucking deadly shot with a pistol/rifle. the russians had a shitload of women in combat during ww2, some were pilots and they ended up saving the day a lot of the time.
 
Lendarios

Lendarios

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Astr0 trolling hard.
If we get invaded ill be on the line of include everyone in the fight. Until then, really not needed.
 
Furry

Furry

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
i am no feminist by any means, but what exactly are women failing at? the carrying their gear? why does their gear have to be the same weight as men? they are smaller, so give them smaller things to carry? i know a lot of chicks who are great runners and a fucking deadly shot with a pistol/rifle. the russians had a shitload of women in combat during ww2, some were pilots and they ended up saving the day a lot of the time.
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Women are awful at war. It's statistically proven.

If women can meet the standards of men, let them fight. If they can't, there's always the mess hall.
 
TJT

TJT

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
i am no feminist by any means, but what exactly are women failing at? the carrying their gear? why does their gear have to be the same weight as men? they are smaller, so give them smaller things to carry? i know a lot of chicks who are great runners and a fucking deadly shot with a pistol/rifle. the russians had a shitload of women in combat during ww2, some were pilots and they ended up saving the day a lot of the time.
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For infantry specifically each squad has X amount of gear on top of your personal shit. Every loadout used is generally the same and everyone carries all of their personal equipment and some amount of the squad/platoon equipment (usually ammo for the 240B, mortar rounds, etc). Logically each unit will spread the weight across all members as equally as possible. If you have one or two people carrying half that amount, then it just sucks more for the guys who have to carry your shit.

The biggest issue has always been women not being able to pull someone to safety, pull someone up over an obstacle of some kind. Infantry units need to be able to rely on everyone being able to do these basic things and pulling their weight at all times. It becomes more and more important if you're out on patrol for days on end.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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TJT_sl said:
For infantry specifically each squad has X amount of gear on top of your personal shit. Every loadout used is generally the same and everyone carries all of their personal equipment and some amount of the squad/platoon equipment (usually ammo for the 240B, mortar rounds, etc). Logically each unit will spread the weight across all members as equally as possible. If you have one or two people carrying half that amount, then it just sucks more for the guys who have to carry your shit.

The biggest issue has always been women not being able to pull someone to safety, pull someone up over an obstacle of some kind. Infantry units need to be able to rely on everyone being able to do these basic things and pulling their weight at all times. It becomes more and more important if you're out on patrol for days on end.
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cant they make some of the gear lighter overall so everyone can benefit? as for pulling people to safety, can every marine pull every other marine to safety? i mean is there an average weight requirement to achieve this? ive seen some beefy ass marines and i have also seen some shrimpy little marines. can a shrimpy guy pull a big ox marine to safety?
 
L

Lenardo

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while i am not military by any stretch of the imagination. i did read about the testing. the mixed groups performed worse in pretty much EVERY aspect of the test vs an all male group. further training is required for either the team make up to "gel" and find the optimum deployment strategy for them and or for the women to be better trained at the "hard stuff", you know, like carrying equipment,,,and injured parties, throwing pack over a wall, climbing over said wall...

i read that, the injured were carried, by the males of the group for the most part, when the "girls" did the carrying it took signifcantly longer due to the women having a harder time carrying the weight.

should they be integrated- sure why not- but until everyone knows exactly what to do when where and how, a female's lack of upper body strength will -most likely- be the hardest thing for them to overcome.
 
Cad

Cad

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
cant they make some of the gear lighter overall so everyone can benefit? as for pulling people to safety, can every marine pull every other marine to safety? i mean is there an average weight requirement to achieve this? ive seen some beefy ass marines and i have also seen some shrimpy little marines. can a shrimpy guy pull a big ox marine to safety?
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For your concern about the "little shrimpy guy", now make that little shrimpy guy 30lbs lighter AND female.
 
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