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Kirun

Kirun

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Fair points.

The thing is, though, if you really like Thai food and the only restaurant that serves it keeps oversalting every dish, you're probably going to say something to the chef. It's not because you've sworn off eating there forever, it's because you don't want the only place making Thai food to keep screwing it up. Sure, you can eventually shrug and tell yourself, "Well, I guess Thai food just sucks now." But when there's only one restaurant that even serves it, that's a pretty lousy outcome and concession to make.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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Yes you can tell some games might be shit, but you also have NPCs parroting whatever the internet tells them. Cyberpunk is a perfect example. The game was great and benefited from fixes that came from complaints, but you have lots of people who never played it and still act like it is a buggy piece of shit that sucks
 
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Vorph

Vorph

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People complaining about games they never played and never would play is how we got this woke, DEI-infested shitshow of an industry in the first place. They can fuck right off if the think people aren't going to do the same thing back to the slop that they churn out now.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Cad said:


People do love to complain.
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that is a really stupid take. Shit like that is how Bioware almost destroyed the rpg market. and, every turned based rpg turned into Diablo. "industry common knowledge" as they just listen to themselves and destroy the industry. some bioware lead decides no one wants turn based rpgs anymore. tells this to everyone. those people go to work at other studios, and this perpetuates.
Theres a ton of trends that work this way. and suddenly the are SHOCKED when someone finally bucks the trend, and realize they have no idea what the public wants.
 
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Cad

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Kirun said:
Fair points.

The thing is, though, if you really like Thai food and the only restaurant that serves it keeps oversalting every dish, you're probably going to say something to the chef. It's not because you've sworn off eating there forever, it's because you don't want the only place making Thai food to keep screwing it up. Sure, you can eventually shrug and tell yourself, "Well, I guess Thai food just sucks now." But when there's only one restaurant that even serves it, that's a pretty lousy outcome and concession to make.
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The food analogy fundamentally breaks down because there's millions of places making food and you can make your own if you don't like how they're doing it. As you point out, there's very few places making MMO's or these type of games in general, and MOST of them are bad.
 
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Khane

Khane

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Caliane said:
every turned based rpg turned into Diablo.
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giphy.gif
 
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Utnayan

Utnayan

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Cad said:


People do love to complain.
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Except this was caused by horrible developers and publishers. They mask and try to hide everything in the most dishonest of ways and cause controversy. Being open and transparent with your customer is something not in their language, and with people passionate about their hobby, they do not want to see even more mediocre shit get rewarded from a financial perspective. One cannot trust reviews (For the most part), they can discuss the developer/publishers past actions whether they have played a new game or not - And while I like Kaplan, he is full of shit on this one and this amounts to nothing else but "Please protect our 2 week sell window".

The industry also did it to themselves with not listening to any feedback, taking a holier than thou approach to their games - even getting some people to think customers should feel blessed they even have anything to play at all and the industry was doing them a favor by "Allowing" them to buy something.

Fucking ridiculous.
 
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Hateyou

Hateyou

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Cybsled said:
Yes you can tell some games might be shit, but you also have NPCs parroting whatever the internet tells them. Cyberpunk is a perfect example. The game was great and benefited from fixes that came from complaints, but you have lots of people who never played it and still act like it is a buggy piece of shit that sucks
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That game had THOUSANDS of bug fixes the first couple months after release. Saying it wasn’t buggy is disingenuous as hell. It ended up being a polished, great game but it didn’t release that way.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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Most of the bugs were overblown and solely on ps4. I had literally one game impacting bug on pc which was fixed with a reload.

Complaints can fix things, sure. But you have to be careful when you have grifters like Grummz or Drinker or Quartering who have a conflict in interest between generating outrage to enrich themselves and reasonable complaints
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Penance said:
This is a good thing. They tried to royally fuck this dude and his studio.
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eh. if only they both could lose. entire studio are sjw pieces of shit. ( I don't remember any comments specifically from the CEO, it was the game director that handled it iirc.)

fired the sound designer on subnautica 1 for posting right wing comments on twitter. removed much/most of his work from the game.
 
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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Caliane said:
eh. if only they both could lose. entire studio are sjw pieces of shit. ( I don't remember any comments specifically from the CEO, it was the game director that handled it iirc.)

fired the sound designer on subnautica 1 for posting right wing comments on twitter. removed much/most of his work from the game.
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I never heard anything about them removing his work from the first game but the sound was noticeably inferior in Below Zero. It just didn't stand out much because literally everything was noticeably inferior in Below Zero.

Subnautica is one of the most accidental successes of all time. I don't believe Subnautica 2 will be a concordian disaster but I imagine it will end up following a similar trajectory to TLOU 2. Even though the utter mediocrity of Below Zero should be a giant flashing warning sign, the love for the franchise is far too high for a sequel to actually flop. It will be a commercial success but it will substantially underperform vs the original. I could end up being wrong though and it does turn into a catastrophe, it will likely have a longer early access period than the first (which was just over 3 years) and I'm guessing they will be far less receptive to player feedback this time.
 
Hateyou

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Cybsled said:
Most of the bugs were overblown and solely on ps4. I had literally one game impacting bug on pc which was fixed with a reload.

Complaints can fix things, sure. But you have to be careful when you have grifters like Grummz or Drinker or Quartering who have a conflict in interest between generating outrage to enrich themselves and reasonable complaints
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I was only talking about the thousands of bugs on PC. I actually forgot how bad it was on ps4. Were most of the bugs minor? Yes. It still shipped with thousands of bugs, on every platform.
 
Big Phoenix

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Khane said:
Cataclysm was pretty piss poor, the bean counters gained creative control.
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I don't think cata was the problem itself. Imo it could have been wotlk 2.0 and wow would have still gone down the same path in terms of popularity/player count.

MOBAs and the rise of social media killed the heyday of classical MMOs.
 
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Utnayan

Utnayan

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Big Phoenix said:
the rise of social media killed the heyday of classical MMOs.
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Exactly this - this is why no one will capture the unicorn again. The magic was the social aspect. TicTok, facebook, instagram, X, took all this over.
 
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Caliane

Caliane

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Utnayan said:
Exactly this - this is why no one will capture the unicorn again. The magic was the social aspect. TicTok, facebook, instagram, X, took all this over.
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funnily enough. I was watching a streamer try project gorgon. which got 5 other streamers to join in, as well as like 60 viewers.
 
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Khane

Khane

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The "magic" of the social aspect was that insufferable, socially inept shut ins got at least some level of "social" interaction because people were actually, literally, forced to interact with them. Those are really the only people that still pine for the garbage mechanics in MMOs the rest of us are happy are gone forever.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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Right, most of our fond memories of EQ1 were the interactions between fighting because there was so much downtime. With hindsight, the game was boring as fuck from a mechanical perspective unless you were pulling in the raid
 
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