- 7,753
- 12,475
Ghost of Yōtei
- Thread starter Araxen
- Start date
- 27,057
- 41,446
I mean we all know its fiction, right? But to make a sort of "based on history and local folklore" game like this, you know, about feudal japan? Why the fuck try to shoehorn some bullshit in there that does not belong or even make sense? Same shit with the UBI game where they try to shoehorn a black dude into the same setting. Its just cringe worthy. These same fucking cunts are lamenting about cultural appropriation, well WTF do you think they are doing here? Maybe not appropriating it, but damn sure taking a big ole steaming shit on it.
- 7
Ritley
Bronze Baron of the Realm
- 16,149
- 35,515
Now do TLoU 2. I think that still had infected, but hard to tell between the tranny golf sessions
- 2
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,848
- 14,228
X = Sweet Baby Inc. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.
- 2
- 1
Tasty The Treat
Molten Core Raider
- 321
- 713
In a sense it is appropriation because they are trying to rewrite it and establish themselves in it.
- 2
- 11,317
- 2,421
It isn't really nearly the same as the black dude. It's a japanese woman. You can argue that yeah there weren't many japanese women samurai/warrior, but not many doesn't mean none, there's certainly a lot more than black samurais(of which there's only potentially one and even that isn't super clear iirc). The first game is also rife with anachronism and stuff that doesn't make any historical sense other than being cool and being "kinda" similar.
The person they're taking to voice the character looks like a piece of work and this makes it look definitely iffy, but the char being a woman is fine and not some crazy shit by itself.
- 1
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 8,003
- 15,274
Making a woman a Ronin during the Edo period in Japan is like making a woman a Knight in King James I of England's court.
I would be surprised if women were ever allowed to be Samurai (to then fall into Ronen) in Japanese history. As far as I can tell, the female warriors linked above were not close to having the same honor-bound duties, freedoms, and obligations a Samurai had.
I know the first game had an "old" lady warrior wielding a Katana, but did they ever call her a Samurai or did the game always stick to her putting on her husband's armor to avenge him after her family was killed? Even then, it might still be insulting to Japanese history. Since didn't they put great spiritual value on their armor and who could actually wear it without dishonoring a plethora of people? Which would be a big deal in maybe the most "death before dishonor" culture that has ever existed.
I would be surprised if women were ever allowed to be Samurai (to then fall into Ronen) in Japanese history. As far as I can tell, the female warriors linked above were not close to having the same honor-bound duties, freedoms, and obligations a Samurai had.
I know the first game had an "old" lady warrior wielding a Katana, but did they ever call her a Samurai or did the game always stick to her putting on her husband's armor to avenge him after her family was killed? Even then, it might still be insulting to Japanese history. Since didn't they put great spiritual value on their armor and who could actually wear it without dishonoring a plethora of people? Which would be a big deal in maybe the most "death before dishonor" culture that has ever existed.
- 2
Springbok
Karen
- 9,690
- 14,454
Well, people ARE starting to vote with their wallets. Ubisoft is genuinely on the verge of failure because of this bullshit, and I hope they’re sold for scrap. First game was an awesome surprise, using sb to help your follow up titles narrative means this is an insta pass. Just play Chinese and Korean games and let the western faggots market their games to fellow faggots and go bankrupt.
- 3
- 1
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,988
- -10,409
A story like that would work. Great motivation, a reason to start at lv1 and a reason why enemies have more HP than you.
The writing has to be right though.
- 1
Szlia
Member
- 6,661
- 1,396
Burns
One of the main thing japanese samurai and european knights have in common is that their popular and romanticized versions obfuscate their historical complexities. What the word samurai meant changed dramatically over the centuries of japanese feudalism. The warrior codes were also many and varied. Mythologizing the past is not a recent invention and is pretty universal, so even the fantasized version of the samurai changed over time. In fact one could argue that the formalization of the warriors code that happened during the Tokugawa shogunate (so after both Ghost games) is already an exercise in mythologization, manufacturing a single ancestral tradition out of a multitude.While it can be seen as problematic to have a non-japanese dev team create a game about japanese history, it gives them an edge in the sense they are more easily free of the tropes and canons of this type of stories. I mean, I have seen dozens and dozens of japanese period films and I can't think of one dealing with korean invasions. Also can't think of one where ainu people play a predominant part, as it is likely to happen in Ghost of Yotei. At minima, I can't think of a film that takes place in Hokkaido in 1600, when it's the blurry frontier of the empire.
- 1
Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
- 15,718
- 14,432
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 8,003
- 15,274
Yes, I read the wiki on Samurai as well. Nothing there lead me to believe, during the time period of the first game or this new one, Samurai were anything more than landed noble males set up to administrate fiefdoms and be called to war when their lord requests it, along with their lesser unlanded nobles (retinues), just like European Knights (nobility). That is not a job that would ever be given to women, just because of how the social structure works. It even seems easier for Japanese lords to take away lands from lesser samurai under them and give it to another. Just like Europe, I would guess that large fiefdoms and titles may have had women "ruling" the fiefdom while their son comes of age, but that's about it.
While it can be seen as problematic to have a non-japanese dev team create a game about japanese history, it gives them an edge in the sense they are more easily free of the tropes and canons of this type of stories. I mean, I have seen dozens and dozens of japanese period films and I can't think of one dealing with korean invasions. Also can't think of one where ainu people play a predominant part, as it is likely to happen in Ghost of Yotei. At minima, I can't think of a film that takes place in Hokkaido in 1600, when it's the blurry frontier of the empire.
I'm not a weeb and could give a fuck about Japanese media (other than Kurosawa, peace be upon him). In fact I dislike the vast majority of the Japanese made games I tried playing and am very particular about the anime I have seen. I also found the first Ghost game to be mediocre and quit after the first castle (freeing the father). Still, I am interested in history and misrepresenting history pisses all over everyone, including the people who "suffered" through the ridged social structures imposed upon them.
If you want to learn about Japan's misadventure into Korea HERE is a good video on it; no need to wait/rely on movies or games to change things for artistic reasons. HERE is a short one on the Mongol's misadventures in Japan and HERE is a short one on Nobunaga, which is slightly before this new game is to take place. Also, here are three 20 min videos focusing on battles Nobunaga fought: HERE, HERE, and HERE.
Last edited:
- 1
Palum
what Suineg set it to
- 29,215
- 48,949
lmao social structure doesn't even matter, most women can't even open a pickle jar much piece a sword through armor. People are completely brainwashed because we've been force feeding kids hormones and calories so they see 500 pound women who can pass as barely functional man strength wise in 2024 and conflate that plus movie bullshit with biological reality. The reason women didn't dominate in any social domain controlled at least indirectly by personal violence is because literally any man could just take it from them.
- 5
- 1
Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
- 8,003
- 15,274
Well yea, I figure that part of the argument is baked in, as I assume anyone on this forum is smart enough to know women are weaker than men on average and the difference between a trained man and a trained women is (and always has been), massive. I assume that's why women were trained with Naginatas, as reach is king and can offset some disadvantages in some situations.
Since that strength difference is also universal, in a game it can be written off by most as gamification, so it's more interesting to talk about other factors of historical accuracy that is particular to the setting at hand.
Also, last I heard, Japanese armor was supposed to be surprisingly strong for not being metal, where even men had an extremely difficult time piecing the "plate" parts with any weapon. Alexander was supposed to be using a less advanced form of a similar type of armor and according to the historian that was recently on Lex Freedman (I think), their tests showed it very resistant to stabs, slashes, and arrows, with it's main downside being durability and time required to fabricate.
Last edited:
- 2
Captain Suave
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
- 5,684
- 9,756
For this reason most Japanese swordsmanship technique is intended to target gaps in the armor (neck, armpit, wrist).
A katana is a three-pound weight on a two foot lever and takes a surprising amount of strength and endurance to move fluidly. The reason female sword fighters are silly is not their lack of ability to penetrate armor, but because the strength differential means they're significantly slower compared to men in manipulating the weapon. They're a fraction of a second behind in every movement, and that gets you dead fast.
It's even dumber when they have women dual wielding. This style didn't functionally exist even among men for exactly the same reason - you need all the power you can get controlling your single best weapon.
- 4
- 7,753
- 12,475
Yes stating reality is.misogny if you define misogyny as not going along with their delusions
Palum
what Suineg set it to
- 29,215
- 48,949
- 27,057
- 41,446
Women dont relate to power fantasies. Its not in their DNA to relate to shit like that. Now im not saying that there isnt a woman out there that does, its just AS A MAJORITY they dont relate. Thats a majority male fantasy.
- 3
- 1