Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Girls who broke your heart thread
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Cutlery
Kill All the White People
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Jesus christ you"re a retard. Here, lemme try to explain this to you again. Here"s your original quote.Lithose said:
And here"s why you"re wrong.
She thinks he"s attractive. She still shot him down. Why? BECAUSE HE"S ON THE FRIEND LADDER. She has zero interest in fucking him. She likes to hang out with him, nothing more.Kirun said:
This happens over and fucking over and over again, and you just ignore it. You are trying to put male logic on women, and it"s wrong. Yes, for males, if we have single female friends who are willing to entertain the idea, then yeah, we"ll fuck them if our relationship goes south. Women don"t do that with friends. They"ll do it with other people they want to fuck, but they have no interest in friends because they"re FRIENDS. Not relationship material.
Men and women think differently, duh. All this thread has devolved into is a bunch of men trying to figure out how women work. I"ve been married to one with a shitload of stupid friends for 11 years. I"ve got a direct unfiltered pipeline between the female retardation and the male point of view. What do you have? Male logic on a female mind. It doesn"t work dude, it just doesn"t.
She, obviously, doesn"t understand, so the adult thing is to answer one of her questions with an answer. "Are you ever going to talk to me again?" "No"Vatoreus said:
Easy.
Ignoring someone is juvenile.
The Cutlery is correct.TheCutlery said:
You know how women have female friends they will say are hot/what-have-you? Well you might just think they don"t want to fuck them because they"re straight. Not so. Bisexual girls are the same way. They can think a female friend is really hot but never even consider sex with them. This is a very pronounced difference between the genders.
Yes, as I lamented earlier, it"s weird how some people have friends that they"re closer to and have more in common with than someone they consider or would consider their ideal mate. To me, anyway. But it doesn"t eliminate the fact that A) people are quite often looking for different things in mates than in friends and B) for women, when you"ve nurtured a friendship with someone, you often can"t think of them sexually, for whatever reason.
Re Dr. Funkenstein: yep. This has been blown way out of proportion. I really don"t know what the fuck she did to you to deserve you being an asshole, and the more you talk about it the more it"s obviously your problem, not hers.
Lithose
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I"m pointing out the continues crap you have been espousing in this thread in light of other people"s problems. Like.
After reading the shit a few pages ago about the dude"s gf wanting to go over to a male"s house and watch movies and shit I thought "So? Big fucking deal."
As someone else said, what do you expect a girl to say? "No, you"re an ugly fuck?"
Friends are not universal stereotypes. It"s not a gross simplification like you"re making it out to be. Friendship isn"t some simplistic comedic site that you can point to on the internet as some kind of simple truth. I have seen girls zip from friendship to fucking and I have seen guys forever lost in the "friend zone". I have seen women flirt with guys to the point of being retarded but never give them any and I have seen women who seem to have NO interest in a friend, all the sudden develop a full on relationship with them.
Experiences are anecdotal but the worst part is that it"s OBVIOUS that you married young and have little experience with new relationships. (Am I wrong on this, or no?)...Your single experience has set you in stone "this is how it is, it can be no other way."
And that is why I"m poking fun at you. Because your primary goal in this thread, thus far, has not been to actually offer advice based on the situation but it has been to espouse your own point of view. To constantly repeat your success within the confines of yourSINGLErelationshipover the past 11 years and how you have made it work with thatONEwoman.
I hate to tell you this, butwomen are alldifferent. YOU are trying to put one logic on all of them because you don"t understand that each woman may act very differently.
STFU"s woman was anattention whore. Perhaps you have never run into one of them before, that"s fine. But just because you married a seemingly amazing, trustworthy woman doesn"t mean you know what being with aattention whoreis like. She isn"t like a nice, trustworthy woman. She will push bounds if trust is offered and if you offer even more trust, she will do something to break those new bounds. Because what she wants isn"t your trust, she wants your attention, even the negative kind.
However, you don"t understand this. Because in your world, only one type of woman exists. Your wife.
Edit: And don"t get me wrong, Cut. I feel the same way about my wife. I trust her completely and we even met when I was really young, which breaks most of the "norms" in this thread...But that experience is rare and it only happened because my wife (And it sounds like yours) is a fairly rare type of woman. Trying to apply how she acts AND trying to compare the problems in this thread to my relationship, is just being a bit silly.
I"m inclined to agree. I hinted at it, but he should have reminded her of what he said. Drop her a text to explain and tell her to stop at the end of it.Dr. Funkenstein said:
Ignoring someone is often valid and justified, but in this situation is just comes off as immature.
Lithose
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You guys are really odd then (Or I am). I was in quite a few relationships before I met my wife (We met young). I was ALWAYS friends with the girl before we got serious. Always. And I"m not talking about casual friends. I"m talking that these girls did the stuff I like to do. We went to movies, we talked, we were, you know, friends. My wife was actually mybest friendfor a long time before we became involved. We have been together for 10 years now.FoghornDeadhorn said:
Now, I"m not saying the "eternal friend" doesn"t exist. It does. I have been in that boat, like every guy. And I have had to distance myself from a few girls in my time because they flirted like hell with me but had no intention of going further, which I absolutely hate.
However, not every friendship was like that. Sure some women have "just friends"...But usually, from what I have seen, there is always one or twosparesamong the friends...and even then, sometimes I was surprised in my group of mutual friends. One day I"ll find out two friends have become much more and I would never have guessed it. (They seemed strictly "friend zone") Maybe the people I hang out with are odd but for me, women and men are pretty complex. No two women have ever acted totally the same and I would never quantify how two women treat their friends as the same, either. Every woman is different.
it"s not like you can"t get out of the friend zone. it actually happens quite often.
you just can"t tell her your feelings out out of nowhere.
instead, you will have to start acting more sexual, tease her some more, etc. until she slowly changes the way she thinks about you and considers you a potential partner again.
you just can"t tell her your feelings out out of nowhere.
instead, you will have to start acting more sexual, tease her some more, etc. until she slowly changes the way she thinks about you and considers you a potential partner again.
How many times did you ask your wife out and she said no before she finally said yes? I ask because there is a difference between friend zone and a girl who is interested in dating you. It is can be hard for a guy to tell the difference but quick way to find out is to just ask them out directly. A girl who is your "friend" but interested in you may just be waiting for you to figure out all the hints already.Lithose said:
That said if you really were in the friend zone then you are the first person I have heard of who successfully transferred from friend zone to a workinglong-termrelationship.
Nah, Lithose. I"m not saying friends don"t turn into lovers. I"m saying the "ladder theory" or whatever it"s called, is pretty true. You have friends who are potential love/sex interests, and then just friends who, despite maybe having everything going for them, you just don"t see that way (if you are female). There"s a leap required, and often times guys just don"t make that leap in a female"s mind.
Cutlery
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That"s also called dating, FYI.Lithose said:
/brofist
Edit : to expand briefly on this --
I met my wife online in on an AOL messageboard way the fuck back in the day, she was dating one of the guys on there casually. When they broke it off, I asked her if she wanted to meet up because my roomie and I were heading to a shop downtown. She agreed, and we became what you could call friends. She was over at my apartment a shitload of the time, and since my roomie and I worked opposite days, she would hang out with him while I was at work, and then hang out with me when I got home. I just assumed she was in to Rick, and never thought anything of it. She hung out with the both of us, just to get out of her mom"s house, and since I was 18 and had my own place, it was convenient for her. This went on for a month or 2.
She actually had to sit me down and explain to me that she was interested in dating me, because I assumed that we were just friends, or that she was interested in my roommate. Unfortunately, women either don"t send off the best signals for this, or guys just fail on picking them up (and actually, with the childhood I had, I was probably missing every one of them, but I"d bet most 18 year old guys can"t pick that up either.) The point is that until you actually sit down and define what you and a girl have, neither one of you is sure what it is. She might consider it dating, you might consider her a friend. You don"t know what she really feels about the situation because she"s scared that you"re going to get weirded out by it, just like she would be if you professed your undying love for her.
Somewhere in the ladder theory page I linked, it describes the attempt to jump from one ladder to the other. Read that part, because it"s exactly the phenomenon described by so many guys here so many times. Women just ARE NOT like we are with opposite sex friends. If they are, they"re whores, and you shouldn"t be with them anyone. If you"ve got a decent woman who you trust, then there"s no reason to get all uptight about her hanging out with male friends. She"ll keep her panties on, and you"re just being ridiculous for worrying that she wouldn"t.
If you"re a guy and you ended up in a relationship with a friend, it is very unlikely she ever saw you as a friend. You were a potential partner who was uninterested or unavailable.
If you used to do loads of "friend" stuff together, she was going along hoping something would happen.
I"ve been in a relationship with someone I was "friends" with (I didn"t see her as a friend, but we"d see each other at least once a week through friends or whatever and usually end up chatting for a couple of hours). When we started dating she told me she thought I wasn"t interested and at any point would have jumped at the chance had I asked her out when we were "friends". The same girl was approached by two of her friends after we broke up and mentioned how uncomfortable that was for her.
Likewise, I had a female friend tell me drunkenly one night that she had always fancied me. The key is "always". I was never in the friend zone because she never saw me as a friend, even though we were for all intents and purposes - we would do friend stuff together, as part of a group of friends.
With women it is more complicated, it comes down to how she sees you rather than how she acts with you. But if she sees you as a friend it"s likely only fear of dying alone and the burning desire for babies is all that is going to get you in her pants.
If you used to do loads of "friend" stuff together, she was going along hoping something would happen.
I"ve been in a relationship with someone I was "friends" with (I didn"t see her as a friend, but we"d see each other at least once a week through friends or whatever and usually end up chatting for a couple of hours). When we started dating she told me she thought I wasn"t interested and at any point would have jumped at the chance had I asked her out when we were "friends". The same girl was approached by two of her friends after we broke up and mentioned how uncomfortable that was for her.
Likewise, I had a female friend tell me drunkenly one night that she had always fancied me. The key is "always". I was never in the friend zone because she never saw me as a friend, even though we were for all intents and purposes - we would do friend stuff together, as part of a group of friends.
With women it is more complicated, it comes down to how she sees you rather than how she acts with you. But if she sees you as a friend it"s likely only fear of dying alone and the burning desire for babies is all that is going to get you in her pants.
I don"t get the friend zone theory.I"ve had quite a few friends turn into sexual partners and quite a few friends stay friends. My boundaries come with playful teasing and I never make the first move with female friends. If they do, it"s go time. There is a fine line between your chick friends flirting with you and you flirting back innocently and your chick friends flirting with you with intentions of getting some. Never make the first move, it is universal chicks are more complicated than any intelligent life we have or ever will encounter.
Friend zone means friends zone. Unless she texts your or says something directly towards you in way a that conveys she wants to get on you, don"t try.
It"s better to stay in the positive friend zone and hook up with her friends that she recommends, than fail with your friend and make it awkward for the rest of your friendship.
TL;DR Don"t hit on your friend, unless she makes the first move.
Friend zone means friends zone. Unless she texts your or says something directly towards you in way a that conveys she wants to get on you, don"t try.
It"s better to stay in the positive friend zone and hook up with her friends that she recommends, than fail with your friend and make it awkward for the rest of your friendship.
TL;DR Don"t hit on your friend, unless she makes the first move.
Lithose
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No, it"s not. It"s called being a friend. Most of the time I was in another relationship and so were they. We hung out in groups and occasionally alone but there was never any teasing or flirting--we were just friends. (Shocking, I know.) It evolved into a relationship only after we both left out significant others. This is why I said, girls have spares. There are friends who girls see as potentials. Being a girl"s friend doesn"t auto-label you as inconsequential.
Multiple times I went from "friend" to more. I don"t understand why you think it"s so hard? I mean, do you act like an emotional tissue with the women you hang out with? Not all "guy friends" are classified as the "gay friend" type or emotional support bag. Some of them are potentials that are restricted because of something else in the girl"s life.
However, for you every friend is just harmless and never has a shot. It isn"t possible for a girl to be attracted to a guy but control herself because she might be in love with someone else. Every girl, in your world, acts the same way too! You paint with such a broad brush that its really hard to take you seriously. I"d love to live in your standardized world where the rules are so clear and set in stone, but for me--people tend to be a little more complex than that and one rule does not fit all.
And you use this thread as evidence of the "friend zone". I hate to break it to you but guys that became more than friends, probably wouldn"t be posting here. Of course you"re going to see a lot of "failure to launch" topics in this thread--it is, after all,The girls who broke your heart thread...Not thePost your conquest storiesthread.
And this is what I"m talking about. You do not understand the type of woman he was with. It"s so painfully obvious that your "scope" of understanding is limited to your wife. She sounds awesome, kudos to you. However, there are MANY different types of women out there. Some of them see boundaries as something to be broken. Some of them see sex more like a guy than you would expect.
In STFU"s case, his girl friend said she was attracted to the guy. Then she wanted to spend the night at his house, alone--drinking and cooking him dinner. And you basically say "that"s cool because I trust my woman."
Good for you. I actually don"t believe you would be cool with your wife going to another man"s house all night and cooking him dinner/drinking with him alone, especially if she said she had the hots for him. But hey, whatever floats your boat man.
I trust my wife with everyone. I trust her implicitly. Part of that trust comes from the fact that she knows acting like that wouldn"t be appropriate with me. I think you"ll be HARD pressed to find a girl that thinks what STFU"s girl did was appropriate. (Every single one that posted in this thread found the actions to be abhorrent.).
Lithose
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Short story. We became friends on EQ and then in real life. I didn"t even know she was a girl for a few months. We never discussed anything remotely flirtatious and we would bounce problems off each other. We were both happily in other relationships.Sharmai said:
My relationship went south because my girl friend at the time had to move for school. We never discussed being together and it never became more than friends. Months later, her husband cheated on her and they split. We remained friends after that, too. The failures in our primary relationship had nothing to do with each other.
Sometime after that, we just got together. It was so gradual that I can"t even put an exact day on it.
Oh, I agree. This is what I said in my first post. Cut didn"t read it, he just went on some tirade about bullshit andabsolutisms.FoghornDeadhorn said:
However, in my experience, Women keep friends around for multiple purposes. Most men here are deluding themselves if they think women don"t have "spares" in their friend "pool". By spare I mean they have friends that they are attracted to but would never act on that attraction (Or even think about it), usually because they are in a relationship. These friends exist. Not every "friend who is a guy" is in the harmless category.
How she saw you doesn"t really matter. The fact was, that you were friends. Maybe that is where the misunderstanding is coming from. Do we now label friends differently based on the potential to fuck? So, like one non-fuck friends be friends and fuck friends be....Fuckends? Maybe "harmless friend" and "manly friend"? Or something witty.
For me there is only one word. Friend. You can make that more specific if you like but attracted or no, if you aren"t in a relationship with her, you are friend. Despite the fact that you might have potential or not.
So, maybe that is why I"m having a hard time communicating this idea. What do you guys call friends that girl"s find attractive? Is there a specific word for it? Should I start labeling my former friendships with this new word because I ended up sleeping with these women?
IF A MAN FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE YOU CANNOT BE FRIENDSLithose said:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Ladder Theory said:
Lithose you weren"t ever in the friend zone with your wife you were always among the fuckable options on her real ladder. You just weren"t higher then her current husband at the time which makes sense.
If someone wants to find out if they are in the friend zone just ask a girl out. If she isn"t currently dating anyone and she says no then you are screwed so move on.
Lithose
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What do you call a fuckable option that is close to someone and interacts on a daily basis with them in a mutually beneficial way?Sharmai said:
Is there another word for friend here?
On "either" of these retarded meme ladders, guess what?You"re still afriend.
There"s friend and friendzone. I don"t know what you are playing the semantic game because you know what I am talking about. You know what this whole discussion has been about. There is a difference between a friend who is in the friendzone and a friend who is potentially and eventually fuckable.
Lithose
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No, I"m sorry. I don"t sub group RL friendships with stupid meme slang. When I said "friend zone" I meant a male friend who wasn"t actively in a relationship with the woman.Sharmai said:
I had no idea the depth of retardation that idiots made up to define aspects of friendship. Thank you for pointing it out.
Edit: And I"m not trying to be purposely obtuse with word usage. Even when Cut linked the web page with the "friend ladders", I assumed men on both ladders would be known as friends. Obviously there is a very advanced category system at work here that I am ignorant to.
Erronius
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I can"t get my head around people in this thread that actually sound angry or fearful of a friendship with a woman. It"s like a giant insecurity convention, or maybe there are just a lot of guys that can"t think beyond "Sex = good, no sex = bad". No chance that you can get with a specific woman at the current time? Stop debating it, stop commiserating, and move the fuck on. Kirun ignoring the woman isn"t going to suddenly get her to think"OMG I want him so much, I"ma ride him raw tonight". The only thing it will do is give him a false feeling of power (I really toldHER) when he should just keep his chin up, be nice to her, and move the fuck on. If Kirun puts a smile on his face, says hi to her in the hallway at work and goes out and has fun, then there"s a chance that this woman (or any woman actually) might think he"s something of a catch. Stamping ones feet and deciding you"re going to ignore her"because she turned me down"will run the risk of making you look somewhat...vindictive. Put a smile on your face, and go out and have fun. Let her be miserable, and maybe she"ll look at you one day and think"Maybe I fucked up, he really is a good catch, I dun goofed". Ignore her, and well, good luck I guess.
You can be manly and assertive without ignoring this chick, ignoring her just makes me think it"s born of insecurity."So you think I"m a friend, do you? I"LL SHOW YOU YOU BITCH!"It"s like a reinforcement of bad men stereotypes. I mean it"s one thing if a woman is trying to play you or take advantage of you, to manipulate you or something. But I don"t see that here.
"Quite possibly" might have her way of not telling you "no". Maybe she didn"t want to hurt your feelings, or have to shoot you down. Or, maybe, she at one point thought her BF was out of the picture, she answered you this way trying to be vague, and later decided she wanted to get back with the old BF.
Telling you that you"re a cutie; that"s not a euphemism for"I want you badly". I"ve had married female friends tel me things like that, and they mean it as encouragements, like they"d tell a single female friend"you"re a cutie, go for it". It"s possible that she was being honest with you there, she can think you"re cute w/o feeling any sexual desire for you, and was trying to encourage you to go after the other woman.
Hell, she may even have been taken aback, and after you asking her about ANOTHER woman, figured that you weren"t interested in her and then decided to go back to her ex. There are all kinds of ways to read into it, but really? Ignoring her won"t give you any answers lol. Regardless, move on. Ignore her or don"t, I don"t care it"s your life, but don"t let this be some sort of strange trip up for you.
You can be manly and assertive without ignoring this chick, ignoring her just makes me think it"s born of insecurity."So you think I"m a friend, do you? I"LL SHOW YOU YOU BITCH!"It"s like a reinforcement of bad men stereotypes. I mean it"s one thing if a woman is trying to play you or take advantage of you, to manipulate you or something. But I don"t see that here.
Do you have any, or many, platonic female friends? I ask, because I have had many, and I can tell you, they have said things like this a lot.Kirun said:
"Quite possibly" might have her way of not telling you "no". Maybe she didn"t want to hurt your feelings, or have to shoot you down. Or, maybe, she at one point thought her BF was out of the picture, she answered you this way trying to be vague, and later decided she wanted to get back with the old BF.
Telling you that you"re a cutie; that"s not a euphemism for"I want you badly". I"ve had married female friends tel me things like that, and they mean it as encouragements, like they"d tell a single female friend"you"re a cutie, go for it". It"s possible that she was being honest with you there, she can think you"re cute w/o feeling any sexual desire for you, and was trying to encourage you to go after the other woman.
Hell, she may even have been taken aback, and after you asking her about ANOTHER woman, figured that you weren"t interested in her and then decided to go back to her ex. There are all kinds of ways to read into it, but really? Ignoring her won"t give you any answers lol. Regardless, move on. Ignore her or don"t, I don"t care it"s your life, but don"t let this be some sort of strange trip up for you.