GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Ukerric · May 23, 2016

mures_sl said:
I thought I read here that the last season was being broken into two 8 episode seasons, is that accurate or wishful thinking?

Initially, they said "we're going to do at least 8 seasons, maybe more" since they weren't bound by 7 books anymore. Then later, they backpedaled, and said that 7+8 would be about one and a half season.

TJT · May 23, 2016

Tenks_sl said:
I would think Davos would know of Littlefinger

Yeah? Nobody, other than Varys, really understands the level of his scheming. To them he's just some Lord from the South.

Siliconemelons · May 23, 2016

Astr0Chuk_sl said:
i was thinking arya will kill the real cersei which is why Jaqenface told her to kill the mummer cersei. to see her reaction. nobody would bother hiring a faceless men to kill that lady, let alone some second rate actress who probably doesnt have two coins to rub together.

Glad I am not the only one thinking this... Or maybe the book readers know - do the faceless men just ask for payment in % of the persons means? so poor people or rich, the price is equally as devastating/burden to each? or is it based on the target? random street thug, 10platz, a king 100 million!

TJT · May 23, 2016

The price you pay is usually pretty dear to you. Like, in order for them to kill the Waif's wicked step mom. Her father had to give The Faceless Men all of his money and his daughter.

Armadon · May 23, 2016

xadion_sl said:
Glad I am not the only one thinking this... Or maybe the book readers know - do the faceless men just ask for payment in % of the persons means? so poor people or rich, the price is equally as devastating/burden to each? or is it based on the target? random street thug, 10platz, a king 100 million!

I always thought the price was a face they could use. The price is a life for a life. Just my thoughts.

Siliconemelons · May 23, 2016

Lenas_sl said:
Well, technically, nothing about the past has been changed? I dunno how this shit works.

Edit, found a decent enough fan explanation that works for now:

"The past is already written. The ink is dry."

Time travel in ASOIAF follows Novikov's Self-Consistency Principle, which posits that there is only one timeline, and people who go in the past to change the past have already changed the past and that it was destined to happen all along.

Two major examples in pop culture of other stories that follow this rule. Harry Potter and Futurama.

In Harry Potter, the use of time turners made many people confused. "Why not use them to go back in time and kill Voldemort as a child? Why not save Harry?" Because time travel can't change the past, it can only cause it to happen. When Hermione and Harry use the time turner in Prisoner of Azkaban, they don't change the past by saving Sirius and Buckbeak, they had already saved Sirius and Buckbeak. They went into the past to conclude their destiny to save them.

In Futurama, Fry goes back in time and accidentally kills his grandfather and sleeps with his grandmother. They all expect him to cease existing until they realize that Fry is his own grandfather after all, and the only reason he exists is because he went back in time to sleep with his grandmother (I'll grant that this one is a tad more paradoxical).

Which leaves us with time travel in ASOAIF. Last night, Bran didn't change the past by causing Hodor. Time, fate, destiny....those are written in stone. Bran was always destined to go back and warg into Wylis/Walder, turning him into Hodor. By doing this, it enables Hodor to continue to fulfill his destiny by making him a simpleton who has to help Bran when Bran gets paralyzed.

As for future implications, this means that Bran can't change the past to impact the future. He can't go back and convince the CotF to not create the first Other, he can't stop Ned from being beheaded or Robb from being betrayed. He can only interact with the past to cause the timeline to continue as it already has.

It was a little confusing... was it an accident? or did Bran purposefully do that to Willis/Hodor ? Bran was warged back to whatever it was they where observing and they got attacked... he needed Hodor to carry him out and hold the door - this could have been done if he stopped his vision warg and then warged into Hodor- but he stayed in his vision- then Hodor stops freaking out and makes the escape.. but bran didn't leave the vision warg to do this. So was he trying to warg into Hodor without leaving a vision warg and /that/ caused it? did he attempt to warg into past hodor to give him orders for the escape / door thing and it worked by causing him to spaz out?

LadyVex_sl · May 23, 2016

I'm actually pretty torn on Arya; I could have seen her being a full FM, just because it had the potential for the most chaos/heartbreak. A large part of what I expected to happen was that she would get sent to kill someone she knew/loved, but would do it. The show is making me question that idea though; she definitely seems like she's not buying into it, whereas the book gave us the possibility that she would forget herself.

Her story is probably the one I am most interested in currently.

Noodleface · May 23, 2016

How come it seems like Littlefinger teleports everywhere

Gavinmad · May 23, 2016

She hides Needle instead of throwing it away in the books same as she does in the show doesn't she?

Tenks · May 23, 2016

Twilight Sparkle_sl said:
She hides Needle instead of throwing it away in the books same as she does in the show doesn't she?

My wife and I had the same discussion. Neither of us could 100% remember how it went down in the show. We both *thought* she hid Needle in both mediums. So until she gets rid of Needle Arya Stark will continue to live. And I have to assume the Faceless know about this.

Morrow · May 23, 2016

Armadon_sl said:
I always thought the price was a face they could use. The price is a life for a life. Just my thoughts.

Sometimes, but not always. The price changes based on the target and the difficulty of the target. To kill Dany would cost more than it would to hire an entire army. The faceless girl you see beating on / training Arya was someone's price once.

Azrayne · May 23, 2016

Something I've been wondering a while which this episode brought back to mind - why exactly does Varys want the Targs back on the throne to begin with? We know they weren't exactly stellar examples of royalty, and of all the potential candidates they're most connected to the magic and mysticism Varys hates so much. Have any hints been dropped here?

This ep also reinforced how much of a loser TV Littlefingers is

Bums me out because he was a badass in his own right in the books, on par with Tyrion and Varys in terms of manipulation and politics, but he's just a whiny pimp on TV. Huge waste of a cool character and Aidan Gillian's acting talent.

Morrow · May 23, 2016

Azrayne_sl said:
Something I've been wondering a while which this episode brought back to mind - why exactly does Varys want the Targs back on the throne to begin with? We know they weren't exactly stellar examples of royalty, and of all the potential candidates they're most connected to the magic and mysticism Varys hates so much. Have any hints been dropped here?

This ep also reinforced how much of a loser TV Littlefingers is

Bums me out because he was a badass in his own right in the books, on par with Tyrion and Varys in terms of manipulation and politics, but he's just a whiny pimp on TV. Huge waste of a cool character and Aidan Gillian's acting talent.

Yeah I always saw Varys as the most intelligent and knowledgeable character in the books. Followed closely by Tyrion and Littlefinger.

Kaige · May 23, 2016

That was a mind-fuck right in the feels.

Azrayne · May 23, 2016

Yeah those three were easily the top 3 players in "the game," and it was cool that they all have their own, I guess specializations (Tyrion is good at adapting to new circumstances and turning them to his advantage, Varys has his information network and works from behind the scenes, Littlefingers works people against eachother and takes advantage of the results to play the long game and slowly build his status) and that each of these specializations matched the characters and their background.

Now instead of having three badass players in the field going after their own ends, you've got Littlefingers as basically a side player who's not managing to achieve anything of consequence while Tyrion and Varys are BFF's who've hitched their wagon to Dany's fame. It kinda takes away from the political side of things.

Gravel · May 23, 2016

Azrayne_sl said:
Something I've been wondering a while which this episode brought back to mind - why exactly does Varys want the Targs back on the throne to begin with? We know they weren't exactly stellar examples of royalty, and of all the potential candidates they're most connected to the magic and mysticism Varys hates so much. Have any hints been dropped here?

The theory is he's a secret Targ. Or Blackfyre. I can't remember which.

Or merman...

The mer-people love the Targs?

Foggy · May 23, 2016

xadion_sl said:
It was a little confusing... was it an accident? or did Bran purposefully do that to Willis/Hodor ? Bran was warged back to whatever it was they where observing and they got attacked... he needed Hodor to carry him out and hold the door - this could have been done if he stopped his vision warg and then warged into Hodor- but he stayed in his vision- then Hodor stops freaking out and makes the escape.. but bran didn't leave the vision warg to do this.So was he trying to warg into Hodor without leaving a vision warg and /that/ caused it?did he attempt to warg into past hodor to give him orders for the escape / door thing and it worked by causing him to spaz out?

It appears that something along those lines happened. He warged into Hodor through the vision and it caused Hodor to have a seizure / brain damage.

Noodleface · May 23, 2016

Tenks_sl said:
My wife and I had the same discussion. Neither of us could 100% remember how it went down in the show. We both *thought* she hid Needle in both mediums. So until she gets rid of Needle Arya Stark will continue to live. And I have to assume the Faceless know about this.

I'm pretty sure at least in the show she wrapped it up in a towel and hid it outside.

Juvarisx · May 23, 2016

She hides it in the show

Azrayne · May 23, 2016

Even if he is somehow a Targ, why would he give a fuck? Even if he somehow knows his parentage, what would he be hoping to gain by bringing a distant relative to the throne (especially since he'd have no way of proving his relation that we know of) that he couldn't already gain by hooking up with the most favorable candidate and using his influence to ensure their ascent?

It's not like he can ever hope to sit on the throne himself, or gain a title and land and set up a legacy, so best he can look forward to is what he was doing at the start of the series, living a comfortable life at court in return for providing his service as spymaster, which imo suggests the only strong motive he could have would be an ideological one.

I might be way off the mark here, since I haven't read the books in years, but wasn't there some line just before he left Westeros about him "serving the land" or " serving the people"?

GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Bearded Ape

Mr. Poopybutthole

Avatar of War Slayer

Mr. Poopybutthole

Avatar of War Slayer

shitlord

A Mod Real Quick

Mr. Poopybutthole

Bronze Knight of the Realm

Trakanon Raider

Irenicus did nothing wrong

Trakanon Raider

ReRefugee

Irenicus did nothing wrong

Mr. Poopybutthole

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

A Mod Real Quick

Florida

Irenicus did nothing wrong