GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Sylas_sl said:

When the fuck is Mel going to get a clue? The one thing I find really irritating in multiple POV books is when you know something as the reader that certain characters do not, and they continuously make bad decision after bad decision based on their lack of knowledge. It's fine when I don't know as the reader, we're both surprised together when they learn the truth. It's even fine when you learn about something, right before a character who doesn't does something stupid and finds out the hard way, but it's painful when you know and have known since book 1 and the character continues to do dumb shit for 5 goddamn books based on their lack of knowledge. It's like watching a movie and a character starts to do something and you start screaming at the TV "No! don't go in there! your going to die you idiot what are you doing!?!"

That's how I feel about reading all of the stannis stuff (even though I like him as a character) as he's completely influenced by Melisandre and she's basing everything she tells him on bullshit. I just want to scream at the book "Khal Drogo was the king's blood that was burned to awaken the dragons out of the stone!!!!!!! STFU about it you're 3 years late already!!! How the fuck have you not heard about the god damn dragons! She's conquered half of Essos already surely somebody has told you??? Sailors in every port in Westeros are talking about it! The maesters of the citadel in Old town know! The Iron born know! Hell even motherfucking Samwell Tarly knows about it already! get a clue!"

Click to expand...

Sylas_sl said:

Khal means King. It's the Dothraki equivalent, Similarly to Khan (as in Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, etc), which meant "King" to the mongols, of which the Dothraki are loosely based on (the whole Nomadic Horse Archers thing).

How is it arguable exactly? Being a king is based on belief by the people that you are their king, which is based on your ability to lead and conquer other people. That's how the Targaryen's became kings, it's how Robert Baratheon became King. And we know that the Baratheon blood is considered "king's blood" for Mel's work. By Mel's definition even Mance Rayder is a King and his blood would work, as would his son's, which is why Jon sent the child away, along with Aemon (as Targaryen blood would definitely count). This is despite the fact that in Free Folk culture as well as Dothraki, being the son of the king does not necessarily make you the "heir". If Khal Drogo had lived long enough his son would have taken over, but typically in Dothraki culture if a Khal dies while his children are still young they are killed as well by rival khal's to prevent them from challenging their rule. In Free Folk Culture there is no hereditary line of "kings." People follow whoever they want, based on their ability to lead.

Even assuming that the leeches did nothing, and that she simply saw the fates of the 3 named in the fires and was conning Stannis, she still insists that there was a better way for him to win, that she could use Edric's (Gendry's in the show) as a sacrifice, burn his blood and awaken the Dragon from the stone. The power in a king's blood is from people's belief in that person as King and that being a King is some sort of higher blood than being a commoner. It's not like there's something magical in their DNA that makes their blood different than anyone else's.

Click to expand...

hodj_sl said:

This is the spoiler thread, Iannis have you read the books?

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/...s_of_Castamere

Spoiler

Origins

The red lion of Reyne confronts the golden lion of Lannister
The Rains of Castamere immortalized the destruction of House Reyne by Tywin Lannister. House Reyne was obliterated after they rebelled against their liege lord, Tytos Lannister, who was perceived as weak by his own vassals. To restore Lannister dominance, Tytos' son, Tywin, marched against the upstart Lord Reyne. By the end of the rebellion, Castamere had been put to the torch and all members of House Reyne executed. The title is thus a play on words, as the "rains" fall over the empty halls of the "Reynes" who have been killed to the last man.[1]
The lyrics heavily reference the fact that the sigil of House Reyne was also a lion, but a red one instead of the golden lion used as the sigil of House Lannister. The rebellion of the Reynes against the Lannisters was thus seen as a clash of lions.

In the decades since young Tywin reasserted House Lannister's dominance by crushing the Reynes, The Rains of Castemere went on to become very popular with soldiers of the Westerlands, becoming an "anthem" of sorts for House Lannister. This extends to the point that even Western soldiers sometimes refer to it simply as, "the Lannister song".[2]

Lyrics
And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that Lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.

In the A Song of Ice and Fire novels, The Rains of Castamere was composed after Tywin Lannister's victory over their rebellious bannermen: House Reyne of Castamere and the ancient House Tarbeck of Tarbeck Hall. Lord Tytos Lannister, Tywin's father, had been a kind but weak ruler. He loaned money to lords who never bothered to repay him and his vassals openly ignored his orders and mocked him in court. When Lord Reyne, known as the Red Lion of Castamere, and Lady Ellyn Tarbeck rose in rebellion, Tywin took it upon himself to deal with the rebellion and wiped out both of the upstart lords, their families and households and put their seats of power to the torch.
Later when another lord and Tywin Lannister had a disagreement over a matter, Tywin Lannister's reply was a minstrel sent with a harp to play the song to this lord who immediately changed his mind and complied.

It is noted as being one of the few songs that the stern Tywin Lannister seems to enjoy, as he is fond of the lyrics.

On a side note, I'd love to see a short story from Martin centered on Tywin and relaying this entire part of the lore. Would be a good excuse to expound a bit more on Tywin's background and character. In my opinion, Tywin is one of the most compelling characters in the books, I still feel like the end of Book 3 comes close to the epicness and quality of a modern Greek style tragedy.

Click to expand...