GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

Unsullied should be excellent in sword n board fighting, there's no excuse for it. They are hoplites who have done nothing their whole life but get their dicks cut off and trained using spear, sword and shield and they only have one dick.

There's also no excuse for Daenarys to be in that collesium without much protection.

They could have set it up with a few lines from Tyrion about, "If Barristan were here he would have never let her be so exposed.". I mean really her posse is Tyrion, Hizzy, Missandei, Grey Worm and her side squeeze, none of them are liable to think tactically about her protection like Jorah and Barristan, much less push past her naivete when forcing her to have a hundred unsullied around her at all times.

Mist · Jun 8, 2015

They don't have to spell everything out and overstate everything, this isn't network TV. The fact that not having her military adviser led to her putting herself into a bad situation is subtext the viewer can figure out themselves.

Noodleface · Jun 8, 2015

Mist_sl said:
They don't have to spell everything out and overstate everything, this isn't network TV. The fact that not having her military adviser led to her putting herself into a bad situation is subtext the viewer can figure out themselves.

Most of the viewers are too focused on little baby scaleface getting barbecued. In Fact I bet most of them are still crying themselves to sleep each night thinking about poor helpless Sansa getting her totally undeserved raping.

Noble Savage · Jun 8, 2015

I figure it is a case of the dragon still being young and its scales not being as tough as they will be one day. If not, having dragons might not end up being such a huge advantage after all. He seemed to get pretty fucked up by just 4-5 spears. At this rate a couple dozen archers would be able to bring him down.

That scene with Stannis burning his daughter alive was intense. Talk about all or nothing to win the throne.

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

Another interesting dichotomy between Stannis and his queen (Selyse) is how they respond initially and how they respond under pressure.

Initially you see Selyse being the person mixing the koolaid. Everything she says is 100% confident, but she is really just convincing herself. When the stakes are high and she is about to lose her daughter she loses her conviction and tries to save her.

Initially you see Stannis as being 100% against burning Shireen to the point of threatening Melisandre. But he is really just convincing himself. When the stakes are high and he is about to lose his destiny he loses his conviction and burns her.

iannis · Jun 8, 2015

Yeah, I think Davos suspected but didn't know. It was a very real concern but more like, "Ok. 50/50 he's gonna kill his daughter. Shiiiiiiiit" not "Ok, 100% he's gonna kill his daughter. FUCK".

Because there's a double rub in it. Not only was it a command from his king, and he's way too far in to rebel now, it is also a necessary task. And it's similar to what he got his fingers chopped off for to begin with, really. Only this time he's being commanded to do it. So it's a bookend, in a way.

Ser Stumpyfingers is one of their better characters, I think. He's explained why he's so loyal to Stannis. He sees exactly what Stannis has to do, and he constantly tries to buck it and Stannis constantly has to remind him "This is just what it fucking is, Dude". You can just see him thinking, "Man... I'm not glad I was born poor, but holy CRAP I'm glad I wasn't born to power." I don't think Davos will have to buck Stannis. I think something will just come up, like Brienne, and he'll get out without having to rebel.

But fuck it I know.

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

noble savage_sl said:
I figure it is a case of the dragon still being young and its scales not being as tough as they will be one day. If not, having dragons might not end up being such a huge advantage after all. He seemed to get pretty fucked up by just 4-5 spears. At this rate a couple dozen archers would be able to bring him down.

That scene with Stannis burning his daughter alive was intense. Talk about all or nothing to win the throne.

Yeah Drogon definitely looked mortal in that. It could describe how they are immature, or it could describe how dragons are not WMDs unless there's a dragon rider to guide them. If you assume that the reason Drogon stopped breathing fire is because he was literally gassed out, it's strong evidence that they are not unstoppable machines of death, but another beast that a Witcher could kill.

iannis · Jun 8, 2015

Mist_sl said:
They don't have to spell everything out and overstate everything, this isn't network TV. The fact that not having her military adviser led to her putting herself into a bad situation is subtext the viewer can figure out themselves.

Literally one or two lines where Greywurm says, "It is impacting our ability to serve" is not spelling everything out or overstating anything. It's just being fucking coherent.

That last episode... the only thing that bugged me about it is how slapdash the entire thing seemed like it was. A burning Horse running past Mel was not a good way to start. That episode WAS exactly like network TV, is the problem.

Edit: I mean the individual scenes were mostly ok. Stannis talking to his daughter and absolving himself of what he was about to do I thought was quite well done, actually. And Lord Commander Not-Jon-Snow telling Jon that he's a good man, but good men get the men they lead killed was also a nice little callback to Neddard and Rob. And that scene WAS one with nuance where they didn't spell everything out but you should be able to figure out without being told just how much was said with how little (and he did open the gate, after all). It's just getting so erratic. I wonder if they have Team A for this arc, Team B for this arc, Team C for this arc. They might.

BrutulTM · Jun 8, 2015

Where was Grey Worm during all of this? I kept looking for him but I guess it was his day off or something.

The only part of this episode that seemed off to me was Arya just happening to be standing there when Ser Meryn just happened to show up and just happened to be going into a brothel where they just happen to let a fish monger in to see that he just happens to be a pedophile who just happens to be into girls exactly Arya's age. A bit hamfisted in my opinion.

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

So are we seeing the winterfell battle next episode? I think how Davos responds will depend on if they take Winterfell. If Yahweh comes out and old testaments the Boltons, what the fuck can Davos say exactly? They were all dead men walking anyway, and Stannis used the only option available to him. I mean Davos literally said it earlier. "I'm not great military commander, but if we're unwilling to retreat, and unable to attack... what are we to do?burn the child Stannis, I understand..."

TJT · Jun 8, 2015

There's a Reddit post about the Bolton situation. The Bolton's basically have to lose now. Since they've gotten away with everything completely unscathed and have faced no consequences otherwise. I love the Bolton characters. But I think they're right here. They've faced less consequences than Joffrey ever did (Northern Rebellion, Riot, etc) for his assholery. Them winning (again) here despite all Stannis has sacrificed would just be so anticlimactic.

Since Davos went to Castle Black and their siege weapons are fucked (all of them somehow) I'm going to guess that Jon tells them about the hidden escape tunnel that the Maester the Ironborn killed a few seasons ago used. One that the Bolton's are probably unawares of. Theon didn't even know about it.

Tantrik · Jun 8, 2015

Yet you think this is great storytelling? My biggest complaint isn't that this horrible shit is happening, it's that it hasn't been earned or presented in any sort of compelling fashion.

Nor does there seem to be much balance in the way the TV show is being presented this year. Virtually every episode has tried to shock the viewer with the horrific. Whereas the books are often much more balanced.
the TV show is missing its Frey Pies, it's LSH revenge porn, etc.

If Shireen is burned in WoW, we'll get to have the discussion then about whether it makes sense within the true story. The issue is, why did the show runners deem it necessary to do it now when it doesn't happen in the books at this point or in this context.

You just can't go from "She's my daughter, you aren't fucking burning her" to "I'm so fucking desperate for your help that I'll burn my only living heir" in a the matter of a couple of weeks with only one intervening crisis (that being an equally dumb plot point involving Ramsay) and have something so shocking and horrible to watch feel plausible and understandable from Stannis' POV.

Not all of us unhappy with this are SJW's. Some of us just hate poorly rushed plot developments for the sake of Episode 9 HOLYSHIT I CANT BELIEVE I JUST SAW THAT Television.

Flinger · Jun 8, 2015

Noodlemod_sl said:
I guess I wasn't that bothered by Shireen getting roasted, I mean maybe if they ate her after or something - I think my wife got bothered by it, but I was just eating a popsicle and unphased by it.. Stannis will do anything for the crown. Let's not forget he's got his down syndrome wife also whispering in his ear about the lord of light, and even she went along with this plan.

Some real fuckin pussies watching this show

NowThatsWhatICallEdgy.jpg

Goatface · Jun 8, 2015

would love to see some dragons in armor

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

Tough to say what happens. You have a large number of players whose storylines are all headed toward winterfell. I don't think Davos should get back before the winterfell battle, except at a last minute thing. It all depends on how Rhlorr helps them.

Certainly the easiest way to do it would be for a team of Theon, Sansa and Brienne to somehow sabotage the Boltons as arrives at Winterfell. I feel like they are a few episodes away from this though?

Cad · Jun 8, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
It all depends on how Rhlorr helps them.

I said the same thing to my wife, we were watching and I was like, ok you made this huge sacrifice, what happens now? Food conjured up? New siege weapons? Horses? What is that supposed to do? Stannis is in a really bad military position, but a couple of shadowbabies to kill the Boltons would have been nice. Burning the daughter does what exactly?

TJT · Jun 8, 2015

We see Mel in front of some melting icicles in the preview. Pretty sure all Ol'Shireen bought them was breaking the blizzard.

Gavinmad · Jun 8, 2015

Column_sl said:
are you sure.

The wiki says

Btw, I re-read those novels recently because I read them as a kid ,and liked them. Holy fuck are they awful now.

Yes, the novels are absolutely terrible by adult standards. I believe Weis and Hickman own Dragonlance now because WotC didn't want it anymore. Dragonlance Fifth Age did irrevocable damage to the popularity of the setting, and the pseudo-retcon of the Sixth Age wasn't enough to get interest back.

Tuco · Jun 8, 2015

Tantrik_sl said:
You just can't go from "She's my daughter, you aren't fucking burning her" to "I'm so fucking desperate for your help that I'll burn my only living heir" in a the matter of a couple of weeks with only one intervening crisis (that being an equally dumb plot point involving Ramsay) and have something so shocking and horrible to watch feel plausible and understandable from Stannis' POV.

xpost from non-spoiler thread:

Tuco_sl said:
Another interesting dichotomy between Stannis and his queen (Selyse) is how they respond initially and how they respond under pressure.

Initially you see Selyse being the person mixing the koolaid. Everything she says is 100% confident, but she is really just convincing herself. When the stakes are high and she is about to lose her daughter she loses her conviction and tries to save her.

Initially you see Stannis as being 100% against burning Shireen to the point of threatening Melisandre. But he is really just convincing himself. When the stakes are high and he is about to lose his destiny he loses his conviction and burns her.

I think you're not seeing the complexity or nuance of his reaction and assuming when he reacts to it it's him saying, "This will never happen." instead of, "Please don't let it come to this...". Either way the storytelling is sound here. They've set this moment up since season 2 and executed it in a way that a good part of the viewership/readers thought makes perfect sense and a good part thought was completely implausible.

People blinded themselves to who Stannis really is because his steps taken to achieve his destiny temporarily coincided with what viewers wanted (Him attacking Joeffrey, him helping the night's watch, him having baller scenes with Captain Beard). But once his steps diverged from what viewers wanted, viewers have to come to grips with who Stannis is. It's great storytelling.

Faltigoth · Jun 8, 2015

Cad_sl said:
I said the same thing to my wife, we were watching and I was like, ok you made this huge sacrifice, what happens now? Food conjured up? New siege weapons? Horses? What is that supposed to do? Stannis is in a really bad military position, but a couple of shadowbabies to kill the Boltons would have been nice. Burning the daughter does what exactly?

I think part of what it did was shown in the preview for next week -

They showed icicles melting, which I took to mean the burning broke the weather, allowing Stannis to march.

GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

I got Tuco'd!

Eeyore Enthusiast

A Mod Real Quick

Kang of Kangz

I got Tuco'd!

Musty Nester

I got Tuco'd!

Musty Nester

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

I got Tuco'd!

Mr. Poopybutthole

Golden Knight of the Realm

Lord Nagafen Raider

Avatar of War Slayer

I got Tuco'd!

scientia potentia est

Mr. Poopybutthole

Mr. Poopybutthole

I got Tuco'd!

Bronze Knight of the Realm