GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings
- Thread starter Araxen
- Start date
Lol. We just have to file it away under suspension of disbelief, like:
Portal Master Littlefinger
Bran sightseeing good time memories of the Stark family with the Three Eyed Raven, right after he is told the White Walkers are on the way. Shouldn't he be busy confirming R+L=J, or learning about dragons, ect?
Theon/Yara whisking away the entire fleet, right after a Kingsmoot has taken place. How is this possible? Would the Ironborn let these two take away Eurons fleet on a whim? Right after Euron is confirmed the new boss?
This is all nitpicky and what not, and I still love the show, but the writing is taking a hit without the books to guide them, which I can understand. Its gotta be hard to set up all the GoT pieces to forward the plot without missing something or covering every possible plothole, so it doesnt really bother me. When this shit happens I just remember the intro that GRRM put at the beginning or ADWD (I think) that said something like "Remember, each of these chapters don't necessarily take place sequentially or that different characters plots take place at the same time as others do", so there's that.
Portal Master Littlefinger
Bran sightseeing good time memories of the Stark family with the Three Eyed Raven, right after he is told the White Walkers are on the way. Shouldn't he be busy confirming R+L=J, or learning about dragons, ect?
Theon/Yara whisking away the entire fleet, right after a Kingsmoot has taken place. How is this possible? Would the Ironborn let these two take away Eurons fleet on a whim? Right after Euron is confirmed the new boss?
This is all nitpicky and what not, and I still love the show, but the writing is taking a hit without the books to guide them, which I can understand. Its gotta be hard to set up all the GoT pieces to forward the plot without missing something or covering every possible plothole, so it doesnt really bother me. When this shit happens I just remember the intro that GRRM put at the beginning or ADWD (I think) that said something like "Remember, each of these chapters don't necessarily take place sequentially or that different characters plots take place at the same time as others do", so there's that.
Little finger could have taken a ship w/ his host to Deepwood and rode to Molestown. It would be much quicker than the Ned/Rob journey which was dragging ass most of the time. The Vale is only separated by a large bay from the North for the most part.
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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They are pulling a lot of very lazy "TV" writing trying to cram this all together in the final 1.5 seasons or whatever, so it is what it is really. If you're gonna get hung up on teleporting Littlefinger or Danys ships getting burned randomly to move the plot along, well, time to stop watching TV I guess?
Jait
Molten Core Raider
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This cracks me up. He's dead, Jim.
But I think we all turned into 6 year olds last night over that fucked up ending.
Dyvim
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Daenerys got busy building some ships herself. Thats how she ended up with those man-arms.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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no, that last vision was immensely important because bran needed to fuck up hodor to make him be his companion later on as well as sacrificing himself in order to escape those WWs/Others. it also means that bloodraven knew what a massive fuckup bran was going to be, but because its part of the timeline he was powerless to stop it. or it has to happen in order for future events that may stop The Others to take place.
im still trying to wrap my head around sansa getting bored during the night and embroidering herself and jon matching wolf outfits.
Jait
Molten Core Raider
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Wait until episode 8.
You're going to find out there's a magical forest with 100,000 workers able to cut down enough trees, process and cure all that wood and build and tar those ships in weeks. It's the same fucking place Littlefinger keeps his Magic Horse. Fuck. It's obvious.
Koushirou
Log Wizard
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Well Sansa is heading down to try and win and rally the northern houses behind her. The Stark name is her biggest asset in doing that so having those known Stark symbols showing up again after being torn down and evoking the memories of loyalty to the Starks is pretty important to have.
The Starks are all a bunch of fuckwits. I'm not sure how they're the heroes of this story. They're all terrible. I'm glad most of them died a while ago.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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Well, technically, nothing about the past has been changed? I dunno how this shit works.
Edit, found a decent enough fan explanation that works for now:
Edit, found a decent enough fan explanation that works for now:
"The past is already written. The ink is dry."
Time travel in ASOIAF follows Novikov's Self-Consistency Principle, which posits that there is only one timeline, and people who go in the past to change the past have already changed the past and that it was destined to happen all along.
Two major examples in pop culture of other stories that follow this rule. Harry Potter and Futurama.
In Harry Potter, the use of time turners made many people confused. "Why not use them to go back in time and kill Voldemort as a child? Why not save Harry?" Because time travel can't change the past, it can only cause it to happen. When Hermione and Harry use the time turner in Prisoner of Azkaban, they don't change the past by saving Sirius and Buckbeak, they had already saved Sirius and Buckbeak. They went into the past to conclude their destiny to save them.
In Futurama, Fry goes back in time and accidentally kills his grandfather and sleeps with his grandmother. They all expect him to cease existing until they realize that Fry is his own grandfather after all, and the only reason he exists is because he went back in time to sleep with his grandmother (I'll grant that this one is a tad more paradoxical).
Which leaves us with time travel in ASOAIF. Last night, Bran didn't change the past by causing Hodor. Time, fate, destiny....those are written in stone. Bran was always destined to go back and warg into Wylis/Walder, turning him into Hodor. By doing this, it enables Hodor to continue to fulfill his destiny by making him a simpleton who has to help Bran when Bran gets paralyzed.
As for future implications, this means that Bran can't change the past to impact the future. He can't go back and convince the CotF to not create the first Other, he can't stop Ned from being beheaded or Robb from being betrayed. He can only interact with the past to cause the timeline to continue as it already has.
Time travel in ASOIAF follows Novikov's Self-Consistency Principle, which posits that there is only one timeline, and people who go in the past to change the past have already changed the past and that it was destined to happen all along.
Two major examples in pop culture of other stories that follow this rule. Harry Potter and Futurama.
In Harry Potter, the use of time turners made many people confused. "Why not use them to go back in time and kill Voldemort as a child? Why not save Harry?" Because time travel can't change the past, it can only cause it to happen. When Hermione and Harry use the time turner in Prisoner of Azkaban, they don't change the past by saving Sirius and Buckbeak, they had already saved Sirius and Buckbeak. They went into the past to conclude their destiny to save them.
In Futurama, Fry goes back in time and accidentally kills his grandfather and sleeps with his grandmother. They all expect him to cease existing until they realize that Fry is his own grandfather after all, and the only reason he exists is because he went back in time to sleep with his grandmother (I'll grant that this one is a tad more paradoxical).
Which leaves us with time travel in ASOAIF. Last night, Bran didn't change the past by causing Hodor. Time, fate, destiny....those are written in stone. Bran was always destined to go back and warg into Wylis/Walder, turning him into Hodor. By doing this, it enables Hodor to continue to fulfill his destiny by making him a simpleton who has to help Bran when Bran gets paralyzed.
As for future implications, this means that Bran can't change the past to impact the future. He can't go back and convince the CotF to not create the first Other, he can't stop Ned from being beheaded or Robb from being betrayed. He can only interact with the past to cause the timeline to continue as it already has.
I think if you asked an everyday watcher of the show which house is the heroes and which are the villains most would say Starks and Lannister respectively
Itlan
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Well most people are binary idiots. There's no black and white, just a lot of gray... and red... and green? And gold I guess. BASICALLY A LOT OF COLORS.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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Only because people like to assign labels. Pro/Antagonists would be more applicable.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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From what I recall, the rumor is that the last 2 seasons will be 8 episodes each. They are not splitting them, but shrinking them.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
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the only real villain of the lannisters was joffrey and he went down rather quickly, cersei is kind of villainy at times, but thats due to her being an idiot with a lust for power. even she was horrified at joffrey and would have sent ned to the wall instead of having him killed. jaime did one bad thing, which was throwing bran off the old tower, which in hindsight wasnt a bad idea. tywin was just an asshole, he wasnt a villain. tyrion and cersei's kids are goodhearted people.
Couple of my (not too surprising) predictions on whats to come:
1. Sansa/Jon rally up the small houses in the North and take the battle to Winterfell, goes awry but is saved by Littlefinger and the Vale, vindicating LF in the eyes of Sansa. Rickon is left alive but not whole. Sweet Robin bites it and LF is the new Lord of the Vale.
Edit: Also, Melisandre left with Jon, Davos, and Sansa, I'm really interested to see what she will be up to. The people shes with are too goody-good to summon a demon to cut Ramsay in half, so itll be interesting to see what part she plays besides "Whatever the Prince that was Promised commands".
2. The Wall comes down/ WWs get beyond the wall as the season finale, just after the Starks re-take Winterfell for their stronghold. Bran ends up chilling in the Godswood. The Bran angle sounds a little too predictable for GRRM, but I dunno where the hell else he is gonna do his warging business unless he just finds some other tree beyond the wall.
3. Clueless about Yara/Theon. Getting to Dany first maybe? Not sure about Arya either, Im thinking she fails her final test, the play seemed to foreshadow this. Cant decide about what will happen to her afterwards. The Faceless men happily telling her "aww sorry u faild but u gotta go" doesnt seem right.
4. Tommen gets killed by the Faith Militant, Margaery gets killed/maimed in the conflict, splitting the Lannisters and Tyrells for good. Tyrells leave KL or force Cersei from the capital, which seems far more likely and logical. I hope Cersei will bite it, but Im holding out for her getting eaten by a dragon.
5. Dany STILL hasnt left for Westeros by E10, but finally gets some fucking ships and makes plans. Ugh.
1. Sansa/Jon rally up the small houses in the North and take the battle to Winterfell, goes awry but is saved by Littlefinger and the Vale, vindicating LF in the eyes of Sansa. Rickon is left alive but not whole. Sweet Robin bites it and LF is the new Lord of the Vale.
Edit: Also, Melisandre left with Jon, Davos, and Sansa, I'm really interested to see what she will be up to. The people shes with are too goody-good to summon a demon to cut Ramsay in half, so itll be interesting to see what part she plays besides "Whatever the Prince that was Promised commands".
2. The Wall comes down/ WWs get beyond the wall as the season finale, just after the Starks re-take Winterfell for their stronghold. Bran ends up chilling in the Godswood. The Bran angle sounds a little too predictable for GRRM, but I dunno where the hell else he is gonna do his warging business unless he just finds some other tree beyond the wall.
3. Clueless about Yara/Theon. Getting to Dany first maybe? Not sure about Arya either, Im thinking she fails her final test, the play seemed to foreshadow this. Cant decide about what will happen to her afterwards. The Faceless men happily telling her "aww sorry u faild but u gotta go" doesnt seem right.
4. Tommen gets killed by the Faith Militant, Margaery gets killed/maimed in the conflict, splitting the Lannisters and Tyrells for good. Tyrells leave KL or force Cersei from the capital, which seems far more likely and logical. I hope Cersei will bite it, but Im holding out for her getting eaten by a dragon.
5. Dany STILL hasnt left for Westeros by E10, but finally gets some fucking ships and makes plans. Ugh.