Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I'm autistic and I have no fucking clue what Wooly is. Is Hyper-Autism a thing? Neo-Mega-Ultimate-Over 9000 Autism?
GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings
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Drakain
Trakanon Raider
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Can autistics go super saiyan?
He's more like those guys on the streets with the wooden signs saying THE END IS NEAR! REPENT... but for tv/movie predictions.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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So you're saying that there's that you're positive 'the Others' are basically Tolkein's orcs?
One of the following is true, either:
GRRM is notorious for being an anti-war writer. Now which is it? You are saying the latter? You are fucking retarded.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Read this one essay:
Cold War II. Silence in the Land of Always Winter WEIRWOOD LEVIATHAN
"I am reminded that at the L.A. Worldcon in 2006, George was on a panel and he was talking a bit dismissively about the cookie-cutter fantasies with a Dark Lord that's the ultimate evil, wants to destroy the world, etc. and he said, you know, nothing is ever that black and white in reality, history's greatest villains and monsters were, from their own perspective, heroic, etc. And he basically said he didn't want to write about a Dark Lord sort of situation. And so someone followed up asking, Well, what about the Others? They seem pretty clearly evil. He paused and then smiled and said we'd have to keep reading to see where that goes. It implied to me that, yes, there's more to the Others than what we've seen so far." - Elio Garcia on GRRM
You guys are so stuck in your stupid little worlds with your stupid little tropes. I've posted more than enough evidence to conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, that 'the Others' are not a rampaging, murderous species by nature, thereby justifying genocide.
Cold War II. Silence in the Land of Always Winter WEIRWOOD LEVIATHAN
"I am reminded that at the L.A. Worldcon in 2006, George was on a panel and he was talking a bit dismissively about the cookie-cutter fantasies with a Dark Lord that's the ultimate evil, wants to destroy the world, etc. and he said, you know, nothing is ever that black and white in reality, history's greatest villains and monsters were, from their own perspective, heroic, etc. And he basically said he didn't want to write about a Dark Lord sort of situation. And so someone followed up asking, Well, what about the Others? They seem pretty clearly evil. He paused and then smiled and said we'd have to keep reading to see where that goes. It implied to me that, yes, there's more to the Others than what we've seen so far." - Elio Garcia on GRRM
You guys are so stuck in your stupid little worlds with your stupid little tropes. I've posted more than enough evidence to conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, that 'the Others' are not a rampaging, murderous species by nature, thereby justifying genocide.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Wait wait, I thought there was a relationship to the length of winter and the length of the preceding summer?
The world of Ice and Fire is coming off the heels of an extremely long summer is it not? Do they not make reference to the severity/length of the impending winter? Is there not a stated relationship between the length/severity of winter and the movement of the White Walkers?
It's been many years since I've read the books, but I'm almost certain they've hinted at this relationship.
The world of Ice and Fire is coming off the heels of an extremely long summer is it not? Do they not make reference to the severity/length of the impending winter? Is there not a stated relationship between the length/severity of winter and the movement of the White Walkers?
It's been many years since I've read the books, but I'm almost certain they've hinted at this relationship.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Why are they coming down though? They reappeared roughly twenty years ago, as it took Mance that long to round up all of the wildling tribes. I mean seriously, I expected people here to be a little more intelligent and open minded. This is shit I'd expect to hear from people who have a Bill O'Reilly tattoo.
There's absolutely nothing that says that the White Walkers can only move south during a Winter, or anything of the sort, it's just a common assumption. Yes, Westeros is going to have one of the longest recorded Winters but that's a red herring, as it'd mean that -
There's absolutely nothing that says that the White Walkers can only move south during a Winter, or anything of the sort, it's just a common assumption. Yes, Westeros is going to have one of the longest recorded Winters but that's a red herring, as it'd mean that -
That's so out of character for this author to just go, "hey, I created this mindlessly evil species that automatically attack humans every X amount of years because, ""they have to wait for a certain natural event!""
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Hmmmm why am I under the impression that they are the same thing. That The Long Night coincided with a long winter?
Muurloen
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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iannis
Musty Nester
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The problem is that none of these deep societal observations are deep. Hell, I think you're probably even right about a lot of this stuff in the specifics. But God damn it's just some cheap masturbatory bullshit in the meta. Richly detailed sophistry -- which is not entirely an insult if you consider this to be an artistic work. It is some mild praise for art.
Have you ever read battlefield earth? I'd recommend it to anyone. No sarcasm, that book is fucking amazing. I don't know that I would say it's good, but it IS a masterpiece and worth reading. This story and the presentation of this story remind me of it in a definite but abstract way. I guess philosophically they are similar, and seem to have been drawn from the same well.
Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
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Remember that there's been many winters. But there's been no white walkers for thousands of years.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Well to be fair this is one aspect of a mult-faceted approach he's taken. I even saw a bunch of people intensely arguing over whether Ned Stark was a villain because he didn't want to pre-emptively murder the Targaryen children, thereby potentially saving lives. Then there's the challenge to chivalry, which might have always been quite hypocritical due to noblemen doing some pretty terrible things to people who were in the lower social classes. Then there's his take on religion, which is pretty heavy handed, but also pretty similar to real life. Finally, there's how we interpret prophecy, which in the end is usually just a form of manipulation.
Put together, it's going to end up one of the better books of the modern era, because of the amount of self inflection it calls for. All of the actions of his characters are entirely believable, and pretty similar to how humans have behaved in the past, and yet we see the Seven Kingdoms destroying themselves without the help of some mysterious evil species. It'd be like Tthe Hobbit's final act, the Battle of the Five Armies, before the "super evil orcs" showed up. All of the "good" races (men, elves, and dwarves) were all ready to kill one another another over a petty squabble.
Make no mistake, I think Eddard is a good man and definitely not a villain. The Red Wedding, even if you argue that it saved lives, is still a utilitarian approach. People killed on a battlefield are participants. Killing people to pre-empt war, or while they're eating or under safe conduct is still murder. Ned followed a code, but also granted mercy to Cersei. He usually always made the morally correct decision, and is an exceptionally good person for the Middle Ages. Stannis is almost exactly like Ned, but corrupted by religion and false belief to the point that he kills his own daughter. Then they're constantly challenging the notion that war itself is honorable. "They don't tell you how they all shit themselves before they die. They leave that part out of the songs." Then the visceral scenes in Battle of the Bastards were pretty intensional as they were trying to show just how random war really is, and how there's really no such thing as honor, or chivalry on a battlefield.
This isn't the fairytale people think it is, yet even after Ned's head is removed, Robb dies, and so on we still go on believing it is. We keep finding another hero to rally behind. Stannis had a huge fanbase, and he was basically murdering innocent people from the get-go. We just don't care until he murders his own daughter. Just like in history, when peasants were killed it was "Ok" and whitewashed.
I may read Battlefield Earth, but my God that movie...
Wtf? Where were they then? In outer space? In purgatory? In your mom's basement?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Yeah I get that, but there were also references in the books to the winter during The Long Night causing ice to move far further south than usual. I always just tied walker movement to southern winter intensity. They can only go where it's cold enough. Winters of that intensity are just rare events.
Gamma Rays
Large sized member
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Woolygimp talking about how awesome a writer is must mean he hasn't touched the dumpster fire that is Wildcards.
Also you keep bringing up the fact that Bran was told you can't affect the past as proof of an ulterior motive. Have you ever just thought that maybe Bran is the first person ever to do that and that it is ignored as must be some other reason. We only have that slight glance back that could be explained by a bird noise that the three eyed raven saw. I need to rematch the Hodor warg through time but he wasn't there in the dream for that. I don't remember what he told him to do though.
So much of this bullshit you are parroting requires people to be "in on it" and understand their roles instead of just fumbling around and to them they are just accidentally fulfilling prophecies.
Also you keep bringing up the fact that Bran was told you can't affect the past as proof of an ulterior motive. Have you ever just thought that maybe Bran is the first person ever to do that and that it is ignored as must be some other reason. We only have that slight glance back that could be explained by a bird noise that the three eyed raven saw. I need to rematch the Hodor warg through time but he wasn't there in the dream for that. I don't remember what he told him to do though.
So much of this bullshit you are parroting requires people to be "in on it" and understand their roles instead of just fumbling around and to them they are just accidentally fulfilling prophecies.
hodj
Vox Populi Jihadi
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I thought about reading one of those books, but I realized that there is literally no way they aren't awful.
It boggles the mind that Martin spends more time writing that garbage than completing this magnum opus.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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Do not diss Wildcards. I think that's probably the best superhero universe ever written. Croyd >> everyone.
All awesome apart, you can have a guess at what he wants to make by the whole of his works. Of course, with millions speculating about the story, someone is bound to make good guesses, but recognizing the guesses beforehand is hard. That's like prophecies, it's usually easy to interpret the prophecy after the fact because you bend it to fit the events.
The 3-eyed raven brought him back as soon as he was going to interfere with some bullshit about "losing your way". It is pretty obvious that the 3-eyed raven did know Bran could interfere, he was just preventing it from happening "too early". There could be various interpretations about why (some of which involve the 3-eyed raven being Bran himself making sure he "does the right way").
The thing is, the universe and characters are rich enough that you can go many ways.
(but otherwise, we've already been warned that the ending is "bittersweet". So you can guess that the good guys win, it's just that the price is going to be enormous)
Do you mean reflection or self-examination? It's hard to trust a grand literary analysis with diction issues.
I'm wondering what turn the story could take that would evoke bittersweet feelings in the audience. There aren't a lot of characters that I care about anymore. Maybe if Bronn dies?ukerric_sl said:
