GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Jive Turkey said:

Yes. She was leaning on her council. Her council FAILED her. She was being pushed by Lady Tyrell and Yara to go with the instincts she's shown since the beginning of the show to burn the city to the ground (instincts that you just admitted she showed with the Dorthraki). So the very people who have been advising her and reeling her in have failed miserably. She has said that countless times. If you think this scene exists to show her benevolency and not her misplaced trust in her advisers, you're not doing a very good job of picking up on the entire purpose of the scene

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To be honest Tyrion turning into a bumbling fool and being given a free pass over and over was one of the more frustrating aspects of this show's decline.

j00t said:

honestly, i think that's exactly what it was. i think most of us have just gotten so used to being told what is happening instead of trying to figure out silent motives

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it was implied as poison, but when varys got killed and the little girl is never brought up or referenced, i figured they didnt want to show her getting roasted too, but then i saw some others theorizing that varys doesnt send little kids to poison people, if he wants you dead he will kill you with his own hands. like he has done several times. we never actually see the poison or what exactly he was referring to, so there is some ambiguity in there that he was just trying to get dirt on dany to use against her with Jon, which the next scene he does do when he tells him she hasnt been eating.

Chukzombi said:

it was implied as poison, but when varys got killed and the little girl is never brought up or referenced, i figured they didnt want to show her getting roasted too, but then i saw some others theorizing that varys doesnt send little kids to poison people, if he wants you dead he will kill you with his own hands. like he has done several times. we never actually see the poison or what exactly he was referring to, so there is some ambiguity in there that he was just trying to get dirt on dany to use against her with Jon, which the next scene he does do when he tells him she hasnt been eating.

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who has varys killed with his own hands? i don't remember ever seeing him actually killing someone

him just using her to get dirt on dany doesn't jive with the "she's not eating anything" "well, we'll try again at supper. now go, they'll be missing you in the kitchen"

j00t said:

who has varys killed with his own hands? i don't remember ever seeing him actually killing someone

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he killed the wizard in the box who sacridiced his junk to the Lord of Light in the show, he killed Maester Pycael and Kevan lannister in the books.

Chukzombi said:

he killed the wizard in the box who sacridiced his junk to the Lord of Light in the show

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was that shown or just referenced? i'm not arguing i just don't remember that scene AT ALL.

i mean i don't put it past varys at all to kill people. but i also think he doesn't have any concern about getting other people to do it either

He implies he wants to poison her in the previous episode. There is no ambiguity.

Varys was 100% trying to have Dany poisoned. What in the goddamn fuck is going on in here?

j00t said:

was that shown or just referenced? i'm not arguing i just don't remember that scene AT ALL.

i mean i don't put it past varys at all to kill people. but i also think he doesn't have any concern about getting other people to do it either

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nah he never killed the guy right then on screen, but he's been in a box in KL for several years after Varys left, he's probably dead by now

Jive Turkey said:

He implies he wants to poison her in the previous episode. There is no ambiguity.

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well... he implies that someone should kill her. but yeah, i think it's exceedingly obvious that he was taking matters into his own hands. i also assume that dany knew, which is why she killed him. when it aired, it didn't sit right with me that she would kill varys just for discussing jon's heritage with tyrion, when tyrion was the one who brought it up to him. but if dany knew he was actively trying to kill her? that makes much more sense.

Ironically Tyrion's plan to have Jaime sneak in and ring the bell to signal the surrender would have worked perfectly...Dany just screwed it up from that point.

Khane said:

In the scene I posted people are telling her to burn KL to the ground and strangle the life from Cersei at this moment. She refuses.

That is what makes the turn so frustrating. The writers have been leading us AWAY from the mad queen not toward it. For several seasons.

And instead of her going mad right away when it all starts crumbling down she waits until she has achieved absolute victory. KL is hers, the surrender bells sound she has achieved her goal and the iron throne is there to sit upon. And only then does she actually lose her mind. It's jarring, which is the point. That scene loses a lot of its potency because it's bewildering. It was written that way for shock value. It's shallow and unsatisfying.

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I for one saw it coming when Missandei's head got cut off right after she shouted drakaris. I said oh good she's gonna go psycho. Other build up is suggested when her second dragon is killed. I don't think it came from nowhere. I think her time after crossing the sea corrupted her like all the others except for Snow. But she kinda corrupted him too.

Oh and I saw a turning point in him too. I wonder if he whacks her.

j00t said:

well... he implies that someone should kill her. but yeah, i think it's exceedingly obvious that he was taking matters into his own hands. i also assume that dany knew, which is why she killed him. when it aired, it didn't sit right with me that she would kill varys just for discussing jon's heritage with tyrion, when tyrion was the one who brought it up to him. but if dany knew he was actively trying to kill her? that makes much more sense.

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True. Poison in retrospect, but definitely to have her killed at the time

j00t said:

well... he implies that someone should kill her. but yeah, i think it's exceedingly obvious that he was taking matters into his own hands. i also assume that dany knew, which is why she killed him. when it aired, it didn't sit right with me that she would kill varys just for discussing jon's heritage with tyrion, when tyrion was the one who brought it up to him. but if dany knew he was actively trying to kill her? that makes much more sense.

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well see, Varys didnt die for trying kill her. he was spotted by Tyrion talking to Jon about trying to convince him to take the throne over her. later on when the troops come for him and then he's about to get flame broiled. tyrion walks up to him and says "it was me". Dany spotted Jon and Vary talking, but when Tyrion told her there is a traitor, she first assumed Jon was the traitor. then Tyrion filled her in. the little girl info/poison aspect was never discovered. or it was and that scene was cut.

Khane said:

To be honest Tyrion turning into a bumbling fool and being given a free pass over and over was one of the more frustrating aspects of this show's decline.

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His chapters in book five were boring filler. I'd hate to think that he's peaked for the whole rest of the series.

Chukzombi said:

he killed the wizard in the box who sacridiced his junk to the Lord of Light in the show, he killed Maester Pycael and Kevan lannister in the books.

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The fuck he did...he sent his little birds to them in the epilogue of Dance. That’s why the little birds kill Grand Maester on the show.

Vary's only thought about poisoning Dany. The kitchen girl was actually faceless littlefinger. He poisoned everyone with crazy juice that Dany and others drank causing the personality changes. Chaos is a ladder.

At least that's what I'm telling myself.

Nirgon said:

I for one saw it coming when Missandei's head got cut off right after she shouted drakaris. I said oh good she's gonna go psycho. Other build up is suggested when her second dragon is killed. I don't think it came from nowhere. I think her time after crossing the sea corrupted her like all the others except for Snow. But she kinda corrupted him too.

Oh and I saw a turning point in him too. I wonder if he whacks her.

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yeah, i think that was the final straw for dany.

i don't know, you're right, it's not like it didn't come out of nowhere. it didn't. it was just executed so poorly that it doesn't feel genuine, which is i think where people are actually getting upset.

let's just decompress the miss sunday thing... the writers needed her to die to push dany over the edge. but she can't just die, it has to be in an unwarranted act of aggression. so we'll have miss sunday and grey worm take the unsullied to south and get ambushed. but, no army in the world is going to ambush the unsullied, so we need to have them go by sea, because the unsullied aren't a naval force. so we'll have dany push her forces beyond reason in order to separate the unsullied from the rest of the northern forces. then we'll have euron take out a dragon in the ambush just to solidify dany's loses. so we'll have miss sunday get captured, and then we'll have cersei execute her in front of dany. there's no REASON for cersei to execute her, we just want dany to be so pissed off that she burns king's landing indiscriminately.

it's become EXTREMELY obvious that the writers are working backwards to get things where they need them, instead of the characters driving the story. the books were ALWAYS character driven, and the show started out being character driven. it's what people have really latched onto for so long, and now that's shifted and none of the audience is on board.

nikolaj coster-waldau did one of those silly auto-complete interviews a few months back... someone asked "does jaime get redeemed" and nikolaj gave THE BEST answer for jaime. "Does someone who stopped a million people from burning NEED to be redeemed?"

i WISH the writers understood that depth when they wrote this season.

so did you think it was super weird how bronn never had any scenes with cersei ever, or how its weird that everyone seemed to forget that cersei told him to go kill jaime and tyrion, or it was so weird that cersei sent qyburn to give him orders instead of telling him herself?

turns out a lot of it is because the actors behind bronn and cersei hate each other IRL - they were dating each other 15 years ago - and refuse to do scenes together, and actually have it in their contracts that they won't film with the other. LOL

spronk said:

so did you think it was super weird how bronn never had any scenes with cersei ever, or how its weird that everyone seemed to forget that cersei told him to go kill jaime and tyrion, or it was so weird that cersei sent qyburn to give him orders instead of telling him herself?

turns out a lot of it is because the actors behind bronn and cersei hate each other IRL - they were dating each other 15 years ago - and refuse to do scenes together, and actually have it in their contracts that they won't film with the other. LOL

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we've talked about that several times. for, i think several years