Gov't Regulation for Games Discussion- DLC related

Wingz

Wingz

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Didn't wan't to clutter up the game thread with this so I started this one:
Belgium says loot boxes are gambling, wants them banned in Europe | PC Gamer

Hawaiian State Representative Chris Lee announces action to combat predatory practices in gaming, singles out EA | PowerUp!

Obviously this is just all talk so far, no action yet.

However, If we know anything about anything is government in general's ability and desire to regulate something. Especially if they see possible tax dollar signs. Imagine every DLC taxed every micro transaction taxed.

Now of course right now it's for predatory practices because game makers are probably taking DLC too far. Like a .02% chance for an in game item for every pack or crate opened when they're like 10 bucks a piece etc. That's thousands and thousands of dollars for an random chance for an in game item. For those that say this isn't gambling, consider now it's involving lawyers/lawmakers and they are saying you need to be 18/21 to do this.

How will this change the dynamic of games in general from just a mobile game to stuff like BF2 loot crate type stuff.

So several items come to mind:
1) Taxes - if you think that isn't behind this you're kidding yourself.
2) Microtransactions - Do they use real case like mobile phone transactions for mobile games? Do they use fake cash like in game cash you can buy with real currency (Everquest , daybreak cash, ISK in EVE and their in game stores) Each game has it's own stuff.
3) If a state or country gets this going, this will spread and each state / gov't will determine their own rules.
4) Will the games need to be rated 18/21 because of gambling from a gov't prespective? The store is baked into the games after all and if they consider this gambling and it's essential to the game as a whole....


This opens a whole can of worms, especially when you get down to lawyer type definitions of what is DLC and is it gambling?

Discuss....
 
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Noodleface

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Ever since DLCs were starting to pop up early on I said they were cancer. I've never bought any dlc with the exception of games from the souls series where dlc are almost always full blown expansions.
 
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Wingz

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Another scenario just occurred to me. This may be a stretch or not depending on what you believe but just keep in mind, you're dealing with government officials that need money and lawyers here.

Take a game like EVE where ISK has real world value.

If I Trade you ISK for something in JITA, that is a transaction that is not taxed. That transaction is tracked by CCP games. Their records show transactions going on all the time and who's got how much and where it's going.

Now you might be saying it's an in game currency not real money. However it has a real world value equivalent and if you're savvy enough you may be able to argue that perhaps a sales tax / charge might be needed (just bake it into the sub price maybe?) for these transactions since they have real world value. Think like office space where it's thousands of a % of pennies but it adds up since it's so many per second even.

Depending on your view and what country it's happening in..this could have huge real world consequences for the entire industry.
 
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Deathwing

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Noodleface said:
Ever since DLCs were starting to pop up early on I said they were cancer. I've never bought any dlc with the exception of games from the souls series where dlc are almost always full blown expansions.
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Not even when they were heavily discounted months/years later?
 
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Borzak

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Wingz said:
Another scenario just occurred to me. This may be a stretch or not depending on what you believe but just keep in mind, you're dealing with government officials that need money and lawyers here.

Take a game like EVE where ISK has real world value.

If I Trade you ISK for something in JITA, that is a transaction that is not taxed. That transaction is tracked by CCP games. Their records show transactions going on all the time and who's got how much and where it's going.

Now you might be saying it's an in game currency not real money. However it has a real world value equivalent and if you're savvy enough you may be able to argue that perhaps a sales tax / charge might be needed (just bake it into the sub price maybe?) for these transactions since they have real world value. Think like office space where it's thousands of a % of pennies but it adds up since it's so many per second even.

Depending on your view and what country it's happening in..this could have huge real world consequences for the entire industry.
Click to expand...

Supposidly part of the reason CCP eliminated the in game casinos was not only RMT but new laws in various places concerning gambling that may have impacted CCP down the road. Who knows, Plex in Russia cost less than Plex in the US and Europe because CCP is afraid in game currency making and selling pays more than jobs in Russia. At least that's the stance CCP took when questioned why it was cheaper, to combat RMT in Russia.
 
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Hateyou

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I hate Microtransactions and DLC (expansions are fine) but I also hate government regulations and taxes. I’m not sure how to feel about this.
 
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goishen

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The way I look at it is like this.

I'm sitting at a bar having a beer. Then some alcoholic comes up and sits next to me having a beer. We're both having a beer, but one is way more into alcohol than the other.
 
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Palum

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I hate regulating. That said, fuck them all to death.

They need to be forced into a decade long legal and lobbying battle to deregulate before they'll learn.
 
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Vaclav

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From what developers have said in discussions of such, DLC/MTX are already taxed FYI just that the industry standard is to roll it into the price so it's invisible to the consumer - so no worries of that being a new thing.

But overall, yea - the market needs some regulation, some of the cases are getting really bullshitty.
 
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Nirgon

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Oh good EA and the government are going to make each other miserable. Christmas come early.
 
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Noodleface

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Deathwing said:
Aren't content patches and mmo subscriptions kinda like DLC?
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Yeah I get that, but I think there's the assumption with an MMO that you're paying a sub for future content whereas when I buy a traditional game the assumption should be I don't need to spend more money.
 
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Kiroy

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Responding here since more appropriate:

Palum said:
I hate regulation.

Also fuck you if you make me need to support regulating your ass because you can't help but put shitty products out.
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You can be die hard libertarian and still be pro regulation. If randomized loot boxes exploit a psychological 'glitch' in human programming then regulating them are fine, it's part of what government is for. Now we can and should discuss cosmetics vs competitive advantage gambling boxes, but still.
 
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Bandwagon

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The only thing I hate more than game companies using microtransactions, season passes, preorders, kickstarting and DLCs that should have been in the game in the first place, is the filthy cunts that keep giving them money for it.

Since Destiny1 and my related nerd-rage, the only game I've preordered is Horizon, and that was like 6 days before launch.
No Man's Sky sent me over the edge where I'd rather see all these studios burn than give them another unearned dollar.
 
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Utnayan

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U.S experience only with the below.

Perfect time for unionization and nothing will come out of it either because the publishers will be in the union's pockets. Union's do not belong in anything but health care and emergency responder professions to protect against frivilous lawsuits/firings against those folks trying to do their jobs. In every other profession I have never seen a union have the best interests of the worker - only the overarching business it gets it's money from.

In this case, we all know the gaming industry regulating themselves is laughable. Further, if the government can make sure all these loot boxes are taxed (Especially in democratic states) they couldn't give two shits about the moral/ethical implications. They just want their cash. Smoke and mirrors. And if they can pass "penalty" measures to tax it more because it's bad for you, they will do it, and they no longer care because they get higher percentages of money.

The only way for this to stop is for us to STOP BUYING IT.
 
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pharmakos

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getting off topic, but there are plenty of factory unions with a net benefit for the worker here in rural Michigan. there definitely are times where they do what the company says instead of what the union wants, but i am happy they exist here.

it's also the type of area where if you work at a non-union shop and start talking about trying to unionize the place, you have a good chance of getting fired.
 
zombiewizardhawk

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Vaclav said:
From what developers have said in discussions of such, DLC/MTX are already taxed FYI just that the industry standard is to roll it into the price so it's invisible to the consumer - so no worries of that being a new thing.

But overall, yea - the market needs some regulation, some of the cases are getting really bullshitty.
Click to expand...

Yeah! We need the government to step in and control things for us because we don't have the self control to decide how we want to spend our money and it's impossible to simply choose not to purchase a game if you don't like the product a company is offering!

Governments need to start regulating the restaurant industry too. It's ludicrous that my meal gets split into so many pieces and I have to buy them all individually! Drinks, salad, soup, entree, desert, appetizers, the fucking MTX is out of control! Please government fix it for us!
 
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Vaclav

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zombiewizardhawk said:
Yeah! We need the government to step in and control things for us because we don't have the self control to decide how we want to spend our money and it's impossible to simply choose not to purchase a game if you don't like the product a company is offering!

Governments need to start regulating the restaurant industry too. It's ludicrous that my meal gets split into so many pieces and I have to buy them all individually! Drinks, salad, soup, entree, desert, appetizers, the fucking MTX is out of control! Please government fix it for us!
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When it comes to the shit kids can buy? Seriously... I don't think it's too much of an issue for adults like us, but when stuff that 10-15 yr olds play are effected as well and you're expecting kids that we've got different laws in place because kids are often understood to not have restraint....

I know it's tough with your meth-addled brain, but think about someone beyond yourself.
 
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