Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

Twobit_sl

shitlord
6
0
The same people taking risks after AC2 shut down. After DDO flopped. After Vanguard sunk 40mil on garbage.

There will always be someone else to try as long as at least one game is doing well.
 

Rayne_foh

shitlord
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Twobit Whore said:
The same people taking risks after AC2 shut down. After DDO flopped. After Vanguard sunk 40mil on garbage.

There will always be someone else to try as long as at least one game is doing well.
Sure. And in 10 years we"ll be reduced to MMOBGs (massively multiplayer online Blizzard games), and "those lesser significant games"

You know damn well what I meant. No investor is going to risk "taking on Blizzard" to build that calibre game.
 

Maxxius_foh

shitlord
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Rayne said:
. . .Should they fail (and i"m certainly NOT hoping they do), how do you think it will impact the future of the mmo genre? . . .
Assuming by fail you mean they can"t recoup costs and operating expenses, the impact on the genre would be nil. Just another game people wasted money on. Movie sucks, you don"t get a refund, and producers will still produce as long as there is a decent chance of recouping costs and even making a buck (salaries during the develpoment count too).

Now if you define "fail" to mean simply not dethroning WOW, but still pulling in enough subs to recoup costs and expenses and even make a buck, well I don"t see that as having a negative impact either.

I suspect most would consider VG as the classic failure. But if you think about it those working on the project still gained by pulling a salary, doing something they presumeably enjoyed, and gaining experience for future employment. MS was the one footing that bill, but it got written off as basically R & D.

Now your point would have stronger merit in a non-entertainment industry where a market can actually get flooded too much. But in the entertainment field, the market is always fickle and it really does require a constant stream of new things. AOL NWN was king once, UO was king once, EQ was king once, we will say the same about WOW too one day (the "was" part ;p). As long as a buck can be made, producers will always produce. And in the entertainment world, a buck ALWAYS has a shot to be made.
 

James

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,804
7,056
Ngruk said:
I cant think of a more short sighted observation. I guess if you assume that putting out a "fantasy" MMO, which any MMO is anyway, means you HAVE to restrict yourself to methods and styles contained in previous games then I can see where you might think like this, otherwise I don"t really understand this logic.
Seriously. High Fantasy has been going strong what, 100 years now? I don"t think the genre is in any danger of being "saturated" any more than the porno industry is in danger of being "saturated."
 

Rayne_foh

shitlord
0
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Maxxius said:
Now if you define "fail" to mean simply not dethroning WOW, but still pulling in enough subs to recoup costs and expenses and even make a buck, well I don"t see that as having a negative impact either.
If it fails (not in a sense of "dethroning" WoW, but more in the sense of "competitive" with WoW), its just another game on the already tremendous pile. As well as a warning to other potential investors who might have considered pushing into that segment of the market. Its the difference between proving that Activision guy right or wrong.
 

Maxxius_foh

shitlord
0
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Rayne said:
If it fails (not in a sense of "dethroning" WoW, but more in the sense of "competitive" with WoW), its just another game on the already tremendous pile. As well as a warning to other potential investors who might have considered pushing into that segment of the market. Its the difference between proving that Activision guy right or wrong.
No, all it proves is that s38 couldn"t get the job done. Potential investors are always there. You want safety, put your money in Treasury Bills and earn 1-4.5 % (depending on length). Safe return, but in the end a loss after taxes and inflation. Venture Capitalists don"t want that safe return. They want a chance at "the sky"s the limit" return. And that is always possible in the entertainment world.
 

Rayne_foh

shitlord
0
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Maxxius said:
No, all it proves is that s38 couldn"t get the job done. Potential investors are always there. You want safety, put your money in Treasury Bills and earn 1-4.5 % (depending on length). Safe return, but in the end a loss after taxes and inflation. Venture Capitalists don"t want that safe return. They want a chance at "the sky"s the limit" return. And that is always possible in the entertainment world.
Well, I hope you"re right. I just don"t see it as likely going that way in a market thats already a high risk as it is. Call it pessimism I guess.
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
This idea that the market for MMOs, even a genre within MMOs, is at capacity is ancient. Everyone making an MMO in the age of EverQuest heard the same shit. Turbine, Mythic, Wolfpack, CCP, etc. were likely reminded on a weekly basis just how few potential customers they had access to. This has never turned out to be true. The market is willing to support several times what it currently holds.

This shit is probably going to keep cropping up just like "loot the corpses so the mobs respawn faster", spouted indefinitely by those that lack vision to those that have it.
 

Rayne_foh

shitlord
0
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Agraza said:
This idea that the market for MMOs, even a genre within MMOs, is at capacity is ancient. Everyone making an MMO in the age of EverQuest heard the same shit.
7 years ago, i"d have been much more inclined to agree.
 

Digits_foh

shitlord
0
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Agraza said:
This idea that the market for MMOs, even a genre within MMOs, is at capacity is ancient. Everyone making an MMO in the age of EverQuest heard the same shit. Turbine, Mythic, Wolfpack, CCP, etc. were likely reminded on a weekly basis just how few potential customers they had access to. This has never turned out to be true. The market is willing to support several times what it currently holds.

This shit is probably going to keep cropping up just like "loot the corpses so the mobs respawn faster", spouted indefinitely by those that lack vision to those that have it.
I"ll quote this just to give kudos, half because I"m in a great mood, half because I"m exhausted and B) Because it"s true. The mmo customer base is solely limited by the amount of computers that can run the game, not some dumb shit "Oh, well certainly we"ve run out of people who enjoy video games now! Make for shore, gentlemen." theory. It"s as if people don"t get that the pool only increases as the established player base gets older and younger and younger idiots get exposed to the genre.
 

Maxxius_foh

shitlord
0
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Digits said:
. . . It"s as if people don"t get that the pool only increases as the established player base gets older and younger and younger idiots get exposed to the genre.
Maybe, maybe not. The growth isn"t with the 30s, 40s, 50s etc., it is and always will be with the teens and 20s. I submit that a bunch of 40 year olds will have a tougher time making a game that enitices the younger crowd simply by virtue of the generation gap. Tis why I said and still think the WOW killer will be created by a teenage Bill Gates. Remember, hoola hoops were all the rage once too.
 

Gaereth_foh

shitlord
0
0
I think I would have to disagree Max. The younger crowd may have a higher percentage of growth but the age range keeps getting wider and wider as more and more people start embracing online activities.

You also have a safe environment for family play in MMO"s. 10 years ago we had kids and nerds being the main groups playing these games...but at this point you have whole family units involved. You have all these folks that might have been young 10 years ago but are now hitting close to 30 and involving their friends in the newer games.

Its also going mainstream. If you work in a larger company you could probably find dozens of folks that play something like WOW or something similar. Those people have friends they play with and it becomes very viral.

Video games used to be more for kids but if you look at things like WOW and the Wii you see where the real growth will be in the future for these games.
 

Maxxius_foh

shitlord
0
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Oh I am not saying as we age we stop playing. But as an older age group our market doesn"t really grow. It is not as if a bunch of 50 year olds up and decide to play MMOs.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
Maxxius said:
Oh I am not saying as we age we stop playing. But as an older age group our market doesn"t really grow. It is not as if a bunch of 50 year olds up and decide to play MMOs.
Except that gamers don"t necessarily quit gaming. As time passes, there will be 50 year olds who do play MMO"s in higher numbers, they did it when they were younger. This is assuming of course the "Video Game" is here to stay in some form of interactive digital entertainment for our lifetimes.
 
A 50 years old in 1990 = Mortal Kombat is the end of civilization! Protect the Children!

A 50 years old in 2030 = Logs off Call of Duty 15 MP early because he just got the "Welcome to WOW3 Beta!" mail.
 

Maxxius_foh

shitlord
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Dandain said:
Except that gamers don"t necessarily quit gaming. As time passes, there will be 50 year olds who do play MMO"s in higher numbers, they did it when they were younger. This is assuming of course the "Video Game" is here to stay in some form of interactive digital entertainment for our lifetimes.
Those 50 year olds were already playing at younger ages to begin with. But the age group for actual growth (meaning NEW 50 year olds playing) is just not going to happen in large percentages (tho Wii from an exercising perspective might have a shot). In the end the investor/producer wants to target the biggest growth market, and as said that is your teens/20s.
 

Rayne_foh

shitlord
0
0
Gaereth said:
Its also going mainstream. If you work in a larger company you could probably find dozens of folks that play something like WOW or something similar. Those people have friends they play with and it becomes very viral.
Going mainstream? Thats a joke right? If by mainstream you mean on the level that console games have reached, you"re sadly mistaken. MMOs are a niche market, and always will be. At the very least, until you can achieve some extraordinary stuff with them (VR, hyper-speed data transfer, etc.). But that technology is likely well beyond what any of us will ever see in our online gaming era.

Is it a much larger market than it was 10 years ago? Certainly. But its definitely not even remotely close to mainstream.
 

Column_sl

shitlord
9,833
7
I see what you are saying,but WOW is definitely as mainstream as you can get.

I bet if I poll a group of 20-40 year old people at least half of them would have heard of WoW in America. In asia and Europe probly more.
 

Rayne_foh

shitlord
0
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Fog said:
How many console games sell over ten million copies? Not many.
No, but i"m reasonably sure well over 10 have sold close to or more than 1 million. And collectively, console games outnumber mmos by a tremendous ratio.