Gun control

Thorne_sl said:

You are right, it is generalizations on both sides. And my social circles are not representative of the whole. But saying this as someone who has spend thousands of hours shooting with and training officers, I am amazed by thier lack of skill and training.

Our auxiliary police chief shot himself in the leg holstering his side arm a few years ago.

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That is pretty hilarious. OK, any off duty cop but that guy.

Sounds like he makes a fine chief then, paper pusher, not duty cop.

opiate82_sl said:

I believe a "mass shooting event" is quantified as such when it appears the perpetrator has the intent of shooting as many people as possible and the targets are mostly random. I do not have a text-book definition for you though.

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I just ask because you posted the numbers. When I see those numbers the first thing that jumps out at me is that question.

ObservantBastard_sl said:

Sounds like he makes a fine chief then, paper pusher, not duty cop.

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I would totally agree with you other than the fact he had the exact same firearm qualification requirements as the beat cops...

I'm going to agree with Thorne on this. As someone who spends a LOT of time a various gun ranges in the DFW, Houston, Austin, and Shreveport areas, you see way more cops with poor firearms training than you would expect. It's actually pretty freaking scary now that I think about a lot of the LEOs I've seen at ranges.

And like 100% no doubt, I'd rather have a guy that shoots IDPA come to my defense in an active shooter situation rather than 99% of LEOs.

chaos_sl said:

I just ask because you posted the numbers. When I see those numbers the first thing that jumps out at me is that question.

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The source is from that "Opinion on Gun Control" essay that has been posted several times now. The author list his credentials in detail to start off the piece but doesn't specifically cite the source of those numbers, but does seem to show he is well studied in these matters. However in the end he is just some guy talking on the internet so I understand if you aren't willing to accept his numbers.

Zodiac_sl said:

I'm going to agree with Thorne on this. As someone who spends a LOT of time a various gun ranges in the DFW, Houston, Austin, and Shreveport areas, you see way more cops with poor firearms training than you would expect. It's actually pretty freaking scary now that I think about a lot of the LEOs I've seen at ranges.

And like 100% no doubt, I'd rather have a guy that shoots IDPA come to my defense in an active shooter situation rather than 99% of LEOs.

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There are a few gems, but there are also a lot of crappy DPD officers.

One point in their favor is that the PD seems to prefer sig 226's But that might just be Dallas being fickle with their spending.

Local outdoor range near where I live put in a bunch of concrete benches for long range shooting and when the cops came out to do some pistol qualification shooting one of them had a negligent discharge into a bench that hit someone. Rather then admitting she was a moron and taking her gun away they forced the range to get rid of all the concrete benches because they were deemed too dangerous.

Oh and the same range also had a different incident where a cop accidentally fired a pistol into the air that came down and hit a car passing on a nearby road.

Interesting...

Zanaver_sl said:

Interesting...

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Basically what a number of us have been pointing out.
Raw overall stats don't mean much. you can't compare US to Australia or anything. you need to consider population density, poverty levels, and etc.

I mean, if you cut Detroit, DC, LA, Louisiana, and Alabama out of the US average, the US average for crime would be very low, all around.

Zodiac_sl said:

I'm going to agree with Thorne on this. As someone who spends a LOT of time a various gun ranges in the DFW, Houston, Austin, and Shreveport areas, you see way more cops with poor firearms training than you would expect. It's actually pretty freaking scary now that I think about a lot of the LEOs I've seen at ranges.

And like 100% no doubt, I'd rather have a guy that shoots IDPA come to my defense in an active shooter situation rather than 99% of LEOs.

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It isn't just about firearms training. Even identifying the shooter(s) is a skill that the layman won't be familiar with. Much less being shot at, maintaining control while avoiding civilian casualties, etc. I don't doubt there are a lot of shitbag cops, but this whole idea that civilians are just as qualified to stave off shooters as law enforcement or military is fantasy.

chaos_sl said:

It isn't just about firearms training. Even identifying the shooter(s) is a skill that the layman won't be familiar with. Much less being shot at, maintaining control while avoiding civilian casualties, etc. I don't doubt there are a lot of shitbag cops, but this whole idea that civilians are just as qualified to stave off shooters as law enforcement or military is fantasy.

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yeah, that Dark Knight theater shooting, or civilians with guns on planes, are two examples of, would have just made things worse.

We don't really want MORE civilians armed. But at the same time, taking away the right of those that are, is a mistake imho. It is simply addressing a problem that doesn't need fixing. Lawfully armed civilians is not the problem, and never was.

chaos_sl said:

It isn't just about firearms training. Even identifying the shooter(s) is a skill that the layman won't be familiar with. Much less being shot at, maintaining control while avoiding civilian casualties, etc. I don't doubt there are a lot of shitbag cops, but this whole idea that civilians are just as qualified to stave off shooters as law enforcement or military is fantasy.

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I think you overestimate the amount of firearms training your average LEO goes through.

Zodiac_sl said:

I think you overestimate the amount of firearms training your average LEO goes through.

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Like I said, it is beyond just firearms training. I have no idea what specific training they go through, I have an idea of what I imagine it would be, but I don't really know. Between that and their real world experience, I can't imagine a situation in which it is less than the average civilian gun owner.

Caliane_sl said:

yeah, that Dark Knight theater shooting

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I constantly see people say that the Dark Knight shooting was an example of where CC holders wouldn't have helped, but I just don't get it. It isn't as if the guy killed 12 people and injured 50+ others instantly. It took him some time and he switched guns several times. All of which could have given time for a shooter to return fire. If that had happened, if nothing else it could have given more people time to escape as Holmes ducked into cover, even if he wasn't killed.

We can't know what would have happened, but if I was in that theatre, I sure would have been praying that I or someone else was armed, rather than just being abunch of target dummies.

They use it as an example because it is a pretty good example. Between the movie and smoke and general chaos, it would have been difficult to even determine what was happening. It is easy to monday morning quarterback this shit, but in the middle of the event it is going to appear a lot different.