H1Z1 (Not actually an MMO) - Server: Antidote (info in first post)

Helldiver

Helldiver

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Adebisi_sl said:
Reads like a bunch of words from people who have never played DayZ
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Played quite a bit of DayZ: Standalone actually, and even hung around the RR group for a couple runs. I shelved it until it's further along and do to lack of time.

Personally want more than just aimless pvp. Sure we can build our fort and all, and play Walker Texas Ranger, but that shit doesn't tickle my fiddle for very long. A few years back in my early 20's, sure, now days I get a bit bored.

In DayZ, once we figured out the essentials, and learned the map more or less you'd have RR guys kitted out in less than 20 minutes (if you're in a dedicated group cut that time in half).

In other words, if you're highly dedicated motivated, you don't give a shit about all the gates in the way. You make a beeline for the essentials and start hunting people down.Which defeats the whole premise of the game.Becoming a glorified Deathmatch with camping and some gimmicks for the Texas Ranger types.

Anyhow, I'm not dissing anyone for liking this, in fact I'll definitely try it out. The part I don't like is people calling it something else and not seeing it for what these games ultimately end up being.
 
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Creslin

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An mmo needs longer term goals to work towards, and those longer term goals always mean there is a power curve. And in a game with a power curve you need to be careful about how vets interact with noobs. DOTA wouldn't be a very successful game if a noob started each match at lvl 1 against lvl 10 vets and the only way to catch up was to find some vets willing to carry and teach you. I know it sounds absurd but that is honestly what many pvp games end up boiling down to and why they have trouble growing.

H1Z1 is already going to be the most hardcore mmo ever because without a skill system there is no protected asset, in EVE you can lose all your shit, your entire empire, but you always have those skills, a titan might be amazing but a high SP capital pilot still has a high value even after he loses that titan. To me that means it needs a pretty robust safety net to make sure the losers don't feel like all is lost and there is no point to continuing, probably one that is even kinder than EVEs.

This is me talking about a real mmo here tho, one that has long term success potential, in that sense the similarity to DAYZ is a paintjob theme, mmos succeed or fail on the same mechanics regardless of the theme.
 
Dr Neir

Dr Neir

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Creslin_sl said:
An mmo needs longer term goals to work towards, and those longer term goals always mean there is a power curve. And in a game with a power curve you need to be careful about how vets interact with noobs. DOTA wouldn't be a very successful game if a noob started each match at lvl 1 against lvl 10 vets and the only way to catch up was to find some vets willing to carry and teach you. I know it sounds absurd but that is honestly what many pvp games end up boiling down to and why they have trouble growing.

H1Z1 is already going to be the most hardcore mmo ever because without a skill system there is no protected asset, in EVE you can lose all your shit, your entire empire, but you always have those skills, a titan might be amazing but a high SP capital pilot still has a high value even after he loses that titan. To me that means it needs a pretty robust safety net to make sure the losers don't feel like all is lost and there is no point to continuing, probably one that is even kinder than EVEs.

This is me talking about a real mmo here tho, one that has long term success potential, in that sense the similarity to DAYZ is a paintjob theme, mmos succeed or fail on the same mechanics regardless of the theme.
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Test out Darkfall for awhile, think its still $1 to test play for a week or so? Might be 2weeks? Eve has nothing on Darkfall and is the closing thing to what this game is trying to do?
 
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Flight

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Creslin_sl said:
Never works, its the suggestion of every UO player but it never works, the PKs always hunt the newbs to extinction and the games die. It kinda worked in UO because no one could leave for another game cause there weren't any other mmos but that's obviously not the case now.

But I know the formula now, the hardcore rpk crowd will cry for the harshest game possible, game will crater and then that crowd will blame everything about the game but the rpking for the failure. And I dont mean swtor failure where it misses expectations, I mean hellgate failure where there are <1000 on at prime time and they shut the game down.
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Spot on.

Smed has had a light bulb moment realizing how easy it is to make a zombie open world gank fest using the SoE engine. Except he doesn't realize it's a gank fest and has never been through the full on PvP experience. He could save himself a lot of disappointment and build a much better game just by having a 30 minute conversation with Richard Garriott.

The gankers and the griefers all blame Koster for taking away their toys in UO, but don't see that it was a broken model that Garriott walked away from - in his latest game there is only consentual PvP. The only way FFA PvP works is when it is fully balanced out by consequences. When there are consequences then I'm all for it. In a system with no skills and no classes there are few if any consequences, most especially in a F2P world, with multiple accounts and VPNs.


I suspect Smed has jumped the gun and announced this before a lot of core design decisions have been made while he pursues the monetization of alpha/beta access. Expect Beta to see a lot of changes in core mechanics and fundamental aspects of the game.
 
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Creslin

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Dr Neir_sl said:
Test out Darkfall for awhile, think its still $1 to test play for a week or so? Might be 2weeks? Eve has nothing on Darkfall and is the closing thing to what this game is trying to do?
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I was in both darkfalls in high leadership in the dominant alliances, I am intimately familiar with both versions of the game and all the flaws and successes. I was also in the old curse wars in EVE and then in Shinra and RKK so I have experienced both games extensively, DF nailed combat and EVE nailed economy and territory control. Dfuw came pretty close to nailing character progression in terms of the skill system, but with some major flaws. But DF model starts to die fast because of how pk friendly it is.
 
Sulrn

Sulrn

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So a bounty system that rewards people for killing griefers and forces the social network into action isn't enough consequence? You want to take a survival game (where PvP is essential) and make PvP undesirable?

If the game is a survivor it needs PvZvEvP. You punish one aspect the entire system fails eventually.
 
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Creslin

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Sulrn_sl said:
So a bounty system that rewards people for killing griefers and forces the social network into action isn't enough consequence? You want to take a survival game (where PvP is essential) and make PvP undesirable?

If the game is a survivor it needs PvZvEvP. You punish one aspect the entire system fails eventually.
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Complex solutions like bounty systems always break down in a live environment, same with murder flagging and that stuff. Social network is a joke, this isn't real life where if the police kill a murderer he is gone forever.

I want to make pvp areas the most desirable thing with the best rewards, not the only desirable thing though. Like I said I have had this argument a hundred times before and I am sure if you get your way and the game has full on bloodbath rpking its dead in 6 months or less.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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It's like there is some alternate universe where DayZ doesn't exsist and prove some of these opinions wrong.
 
Sulrn

Sulrn

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I feel like DayZ mods support my opinion. So I feel confused over that statement.
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gogojira_sl

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Every time I see this game's name I can't help but read it as Heezy because of some gaffer. I never played DayZ or Rust or any of the other survival games so this should be pretty fresh for me. Zombies have been old for years now but I still welcome good ones.
 
Sabbat

Sabbat

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Pony up 10 bucks to buy a copy of the game. stay a citizen in good standing and when you die you can reincarnate. If you murder some dude, you're pushed to -1000 karma and when you die to another player, it locks your account and refuses you to create a new one, permanently. Karma gain is capped at 10 points per day, with a minimum of 2 hours (active - zombie killing) play to qualify.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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Creslin_sl said:
Dayz isn't a real mmo. Its like a persistent shooter.
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Which is basically what this game will be. You aren't going to run into the same frustrations of your typical PVP mmo. I don't have to worry about the other guy having a higher level or an equipment advantage I can't overcome. The brutatlity and paranoia is what will give this game and games like it it's appeal. Give it a chance. I think you will see a thriving PVP community like DayZ has only bigger because it will have those extra features everyone wants.
 
Adebisi

Adebisi

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Shit people say in this thread

Full PVP all the time? No thanks

The problem with free PVP, no system of regulation and punishment. You can just respawn and rebuild or shoot someone to take their stuff. Which is what all this will be.

There will be a pull, the CounterStrike and Battlefield players will dig this

If they are going with no lvls or skills to grind, at least give some form of punishment. One way to do this is to have an NPC faction that follows you in little ways with bonuses.

The game requires some sort of progression, if something as simple as call of dutys weapon progression.

Simple solution: The whole world is PvE (think Warhammer Online). Except there are large PvP islands

Also, a "skill-based" system, imo, has more to do with diversity than "leveling up". Making your own unique and interesting character build. Without it, it's just a pretty shallow shooter. (I use the term shooter loosely, since guns/ammo are supposed to be rare)

They could just allocate you all your points are character creation

I have zero interest in Dayz

I'd only be interested in this if there was enough PvE to hold my interest.

Add open gank pvp Dayz style, and that becomes your game; Quake deathmatch. Period

You die around your buddies, they loot you, and hand your shit to your new character. You've lost no progression or anything.

Still not happy about no skills/levels

No game that has been full on FFA has ever succeeded.

My recommendation? Kill another player lose -10% experience
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Creslin

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Abefroman_sl said:
Which is basically what this game will be. You aren't going to run into the same frustrations of your typical PVP mmo. I don't have to worry about the other guy having a higher level or an equipment advantage I can't overcome. The brutatlity and paranoia is what will give this game and games like it it's appeal. Give it a chance. I think you will see a thriving PVP community like DayZ has only bigger because it will have those extra features everyone wants.
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I just wonder how you keep people playing without any progression then. Sounds kinda like a death match but that is dayz, so not sure how this game is different from dayz at all then.

What I was trying to say earlier is that its the power curve in mmos that gives them longevity but its also what causes the pvp systems to break down. Sounds like you think they will just solve that by not having a power curve, it might be fun and not die but not sure it would be an mmo, or how that no curve theory works with the crafting they are suggesting.

And even slight power curves can cause issues, darkfall has a very shallow curve and you wont ever run into someone you cant theoretically kill.
 
Adebisi

Adebisi

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I think I know what's wrong here.

Amod - Can you move this thread to the Other Games forum where it belongs.
 
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InterSlayer_sl

shitlord
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Adebisi_sl said:
I think I know what's wrong here.

Amod - Can you move this thread to the Other Games forum where it belongs.
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Whoops my bad. Did SOE start making games besides MMOs? Does H1Z1 not meet one of the MMO or RPG criteria that is so clearly defined in black and white? I'm new to this, someone fill me in.
 
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