Having an existential crisis

j00t

j00t

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troll... of ALL the people here... how is it that you are the only one who actually gave a legitimate response? kudos. the best response to that website that i can make at this point (being too early in the morning to critical thinking) is that i still don't see anything there that refutes aquinas' arguments. i see some things that refute the christian or muslim god, but i wasn't even arguing that here. admittedly, i haven't spent a ton of time there and i'll look around some more.

that being said, this isn't the time or the place for theological debate and it's even off-topic for the derail. someone kept asking for scientific proof knowing that there isn't any even though there isn't any scientific proof that there isn't. strawman, i know. let's move on.
 
j00t

j00t

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BrotherWu_sl said:
Joot,

To be clear, are you changing your statement that there have been "PLENTY" of scientific discoveries that offer proof of the existence of God?
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to be clear, i misspoke. i should have stated that there has plenty of scientific discoveries that corroborate the exisitance of God. nothing unequivically proves or disproves God's existance. but there's enough anecdotal evidence for both arguments.
 
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Troll_sl

shitlord
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j00t_sl said:
troll... of ALL the people here... how is it that you are the only one who actually gave a legitimate response? kudos. the best response to that website that i can make at this point (being too early in the morning to critical thinking) is that i still don't see anything there that refutes aquinas' arguments. i see some things that refute the christian or muslim god, but i wasn't even arguing that here. admittedly, i haven't spent a ton of time there and i'll look around some more.

that being said, this isn't the time or the place for theological debate and it's even off-topic for the derail. someone kept asking for scientific proof knowing that there isn't any even though there isn't any scientific proof that there isn't. strawman, i know. let's move on.
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You didn't explore very much of it, obviously. They go through so many arguments. Yours are in there and they're addressed, I can guarantee it.
 
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Troll_sl

shitlord
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And look, I'm not throwing this stuff out to try to beat you over the head. I just hear the same arguments over and over again. I'm just hoping someone will move away from the old, tired stuff and give us something new to think about.
 
j00t

j00t

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ah, okay cool. i'll look in a bit (at work)

and i'm very much not taking it as beating me over the head. i'm taking it as someone is finally giving a valid and educated response that isn't "you're an imbecile."

edit: after looking through some of that briefly, i'm impressed. thanks for showing me that
 
Cad

Cad

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Glad to see I wasn't wrong in lashing out in the first place though, you really are a "science proves religion LOLZ" troll. There's religion and atheism threads elsewhere.
 
iannis

iannis

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Have you watched the episode of Cosmos where Sagan explains hyper dimensionality and what the shadow of a 4 dimensional "cube" would look like?

Don't get bogged down in the faith based science or the science based faith distractions. It's rather missing the point of what science and faith are. You'll wind up building a telescope and searching the sky for the face of almighty god smiling down on us (russians did that, and upon not finding it declared Christianity a hoax) or you'll wind up putting a crystal bracelet connected by magnets on your wrist and thinking that it will cure your cancer.

Science is the method by which we understand the laws through which God fashioned his creation. Be content with that. It ismorethan enough.

You start wanting more than that and you wander into "Zombie Jesus flew up into the sky so that he could sit at the right hand of his Fathers throne and watch over the souls of the faithful until judgement day" territory. Well, maybe. Or maybe an important thing was being said and it was being said in a way which the listeners could understand.
 
j00t

j00t

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That's pretty much my point. People use science to prove their points, which isn't a bad thing. It's when they use science as a magic word to prove their point without really understanding the actual science. That is all I'm saying. I'm not saying that god exists because science. I'm not saying god doesn't exist because science. I'm saying that that argument itself is blind and fanatical. That's all I'm saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

And you are saying that you were correct n lashing out. My opinion on that is as follows: lashing out is an emotional response. An emotional response has no place in the scientific method. You are invalidating your own point.
 
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Duppin_sl

shitlord
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j00t_sl said:
Badly because you don't agree, or badly because I've misrepresented some of his arguments?
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Both. Even Aquinas, who was far smarter than you, didn't pretend that the "prime mover" idea got him to the existence of a God, much less the Christian God.
 
j00t

j00t

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I'm not playing semantic games and not trying to fool anyone. I've said multiple times that you are all free to make and have whatever opinions you want and they are all equally valid. If you want to disagree with me, more power to you. I may believe in one specific god, but Aquinas' arguments don't specify one. In fact one of the chief counters to his arguments is very specifically "which god are you talking about because they are all different" don't assume I'm talking about something specific just because that's what YOU are thinking.

Whether or not there is a god is not a scientific question. It's an emotional one. There isn't a person on the planet who doesn't have an opinion on that question and it'll take an act of god (metaphorically speaking) to change someone's mind. There's no point in an open discussion on the topic. Not here anyways. The fact that the athiesm thread is in the grown up section and the religious thread is in the rickshaw says which side of the fence this board is on. Which, again is fine. Just don't pretend youre unbiased about it
 
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Duppin_sl

shitlord
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We're biased against stupid arguments like yours.

I don't really care what you believe, but stop abusing poor Aquinas to try to support your idiocy. You clearly haven't understood a bit of what he was saying.
 
Izo

Izo

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Hmm, was 'sposed to go in the atheism thread. Apologies
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Twobit_sl

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Why is this about religion?

Anyway.. I had one of those phases (wouldn't quite call it a crisis, just brief periods of intense despair) but I was older than most people here I guess. Around 30ish.. and it had nothing to do with jobs, careers, school, girls or any of that. The trigger for me would be science, documentaries and TV shows about astronomy mostly. It's odd because I grew up obsessed with space and the planets and wanted to go to school for astronomy until I found out it was 95% math that may as well be Greek to me. Still always loved any and every show about space, deep space, other galaxies and theories on black holes and super novas and background radiation and all the cool stuff.

Then one day, while watching something similar I had this profound realization that I would never get to experience living on Titan or vacationing to the moon.. yet it's highly likely people will within a few hundred years. Jealous? Maybe. I think it's the fact that there is so much out there that I will never experience that bothered me. And as suddenly as the episodes began, they ended. Having something to think about other than contemplating life and religion and science and the stars helps. Probably why people think going to school or getting a good job or hot girlfriend helps. You don't have time to be sad that you are just a tiny little speck on a tiny little speck in a tiny little speck among infinite little specks when you actually have shit to do.

Why do it? Well, the alternative sucks. Death means you experience nothing, and frankly I like driving my car, living in my house, playing with my dogs, getting a new phone, going on a date more than I worry about not breathing Neptunium vapors because it's better than Kush.
 
Izo

Izo

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Twobit_sl said:
Why is this about religion?

Anyway.. I had one of those phases (wouldn't quite call it a crisis, just brief periods of intense despair) but I was older than most people here I guess. Around 30ish.. and it had nothing to do with jobs, careers, school, girls or any of that. The trigger for me would be science, documentaries and TV shows about astronomy mostly. It's odd because I grew up obsessed with space and the planets and wanted to go to school for astronomy until I found out it was 95% math that may as well be Greek to me. Still always loved any and every show about space, deep space, other galaxies and theories on black holes and super novas and background radiation and all the cool stuff.

Then one day, while watching something similar I had this profound realization that I would never get to experience living on Titan or vacationing to the moon.. yet it's highly likely people will within a few hundred years. Jealous? Maybe. I think it's the fact that there is so much out there that I will never experience that bothered me. And as suddenly as the episodes began, they ended. Having something to think about other than contemplating life and religion and science and the stars helps. Probably why people think going to school or getting a good job or hot girlfriend helps. You don't have time to be sad that you are just a tiny little speck on a tiny little speck in a tiny little speck among infinite little specks when you actually have shit to do.

Why do it? Well, the alternative sucks. Death means you experience nothing, and frankly I like driving my car, living in my house, playing with my dogs, getting a new phone, going on a date more than I worry about not breathing Neptunium vapors because it's better than Kush.
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http://hubblesite.org/
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hu...ain/index.html

Next caller!
 
Tuco

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Twobit_sl said:
Then one day, while watching something similar I had this profound realization that I would never get to experience living on Titan or vacationing to the moon.. yet it's highly likely people will within a few hundred years. Jealous? Maybe. I think it's the fact that there is so much out there that I will never experience that bothered me. And as suddenly as the episodes began, they ended. Having something to think about other than contemplating life and religion and science and the stars helps. Probably why people think going to school or getting a good job or hot girlfriend helps. You don't have time to be sad that you are just a tiny little speck on a tiny little speck in a tiny little speck among infinite little specks when you actually have shit to do.
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That's pretty much how I feel all the time, but very mildly. A lot of people believe that in the near term future tech will improve enough to prolong life indefinitely and that this generation is just a few decades too early to experience it. Maybe people in the 60s thought that too and in 500 years nothing really exciting will have happened. Or maybe our kids/grandkids will live forever.

Sometimes it's frustrating, but I find it motivates me to work harder at my career in hopes I can contribute in some small way.
 
iannis

iannis

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I don't think we're close to clinical immortality, or even doubling life expectancies. I don't think it's impossible, but I do think it takes more than a few hundred years to master the intricate accretion of a process which spans millions. It seems arrogant to me. We didn't even realize that synthetic estrogen leads to increased cancer rates until we tried it for about ten years.

I mean, ya know, it's gonna be a while still. But I do think we'll get there if we don't genocide our own species first. The doubling, at least. Clinical immortality sounds like a faery tale to me.

But Christ, words of wisdom from Conan the Barbarian. Whowantsto live forever?
 
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