Hearthstone

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,463
They should make doomsayers a 1/7. That would fix weeny aggro decks taking it out, without suffering.

Just play Acherus Veteran on your doomsayer or something. that card would be fundamentally broken as a 1/7 by itself. It's a solid 7 hp shield for just two mana, that stalls agro decks by itself.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
Turn 2 doomsayer can really only die 2 ways that I know of:
1dropPirate+Patches+Heroic Strike
or mana wyrm into glyph-->glyph-->frostbolt

The mage one only happened to me 1x
Warrior happens like 1/3rd the time I'd guess, basically just need Heroic Strike in hand.
Maybe other obscure ways but turn 2 doomsayer was basically impossible to counter without silence, now Owl can't even save.

If you can beat a Turn 2 Doomsayer with decent frequency (pirate warrior), i'd say shit is pretty broken.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Krag

Peasant
475
47
For me the deck most often killing a turn two Doomsayer is aggro druid, especially now they are playing alchemist on top of those stupid innervate buff openings that gets etched into your memory as happening *every damn time*.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
For me the deck most often killing a turn two Doomsayer is aggro druid, especially now they are playing alchemist on top of those stupid innervate buff openings that gets etched into your memory as happening *every damn time*.

Whenever I can coin->Doomsayer after they already innervate->Fledgling, they never have an answer... on 2mana they'd need to innervate->swipe... I don't see another way.

If they have 3mana then there are many ways. Maybe my lingo is wrong but a turn2 doomsayer to me means dealing with it turn 2, so basically the Doomsayer was coined out turn 1.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,463
If your opponent uses two cards just to remove doomsayer, I daresay you got infinite value from him.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ishad

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,802
4,749
Turn 2 doomsayer can really only die 2 ways that I know of:
1dropPirate+Patches+Heroic Strike
or mana wyrm into glyph-->glyph-->frostbolt

The mage one only happened to me 1x
Warrior happens like 1/3rd the time I'd guess, basically just need Heroic Strike in hand.
Maybe other obscure ways but turn 2 doomsayer was basically impossible to counter without silence, now Owl can't even save.

If you can beat a Turn 2 Doomsayer with decent frequency (pirate warrior), i'd say shit is pretty broken.

I had a Druid turn 1 coin+innervate fandrahl, killed my turn 2 doomsayer with fandrahl+ wrath and then killed my turn 3 doomsayers the same way.

God I hate innervate.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
I had a Druid turn 1 coin+innervate fandrahl, killed my turn 2 doomsayer with fandrahl+ wrath and then killed my turn 3 doomsayers the same way.

God I hate innervate.

Yea that sucks... I've seen a few Turn 1 Fandrals just yesterday, surprising how frequent it can happen... Need to have Wrath follow-up or imo it's not worth spending coin & innervate.. unless you are against Aggro.

Against Jade Druid I'm not sure how badly I need to Doomsayer a Fandral on turn 2, though. Depends on my list obviously... as Mage I may save Doomsayer for a Freeze turn. As Paladin I probably drop it.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Krag

Peasant
475
47
Whenever I can coin->Doomsayer after they already innervate->Fledgling, they never have an answer... on 2mana they'd need to innervate->swipe... I don't see another way.

If they have 3mana then there are many ways. Maybe my lingo is wrong but a turn2 doomsayer to me means dealing with it turn 2, so basically the Doomsayer was coined out turn 1.
I meant more the horseshit corsair + patches, innervate, fire fly, mark or the lotus openings.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
I meant more the horseshit corsair + patches, innervate, fire fly, mark or the lotus openings.

True.

And this is why Innervate needs to get the HoF treatment.

Make a new spell that refills 2 empty crystals. So then you could Corsair+Patches, Innervate + Mark OR Fire Fly. Most you get on board is 3-4 power instead of 6. Also no more turn 1 fledglings.

Unfortunately I doubt we see any HoF treatments until next rotation, and Patches is leaving anyway... and Jades... and Raza... the meta will be drastically different, we just need to wait 8 months. Big Priest likely to be the next focus of complaint. It's already Tier 1 or 2. I think Tempostorm lists it as Tier 2, but Thijs was claiming it as right behind Druid. I have been hitting it a ton and trying to tech for it. It's rough to go against as a control player.
 
  • 1Solidarity
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 users

skribble

Golden Knight of the Realm
488
136
Came back after a long time away since some of the new cards looked like fun, playing around a lot with control warlock, feels a bit janky and im probably not playing it properly.

I based my list off the one here previously, and some deck some guy used to get high legend with.

Some problems:
Whether to include giants and drakes or not: I feel like the deck is definitely stronger with them in, quite a few games were complete steamrolls on my side and when climbing its nice to have that potential instead of every game being a long drawn out game, and with the aggro removal cards I don't get run over too hard and I feel like its stronger than trying more of a tempo based start though the healing from the 1 drop guys would be nice.
Hellfires x2: I just can't seem to find hellfires useful ever. I also found this in original handlock, its just so expensive to play both in terms of life and mana, and often the board would be refilled insantly and I had gained absolutely nothing except lose a lot of health, it never seemed to gave me the upper hand. Right now Im experimenting just using one.
Doomsayer: I find it hard to get value from it also, again a lot of time its a dead card for me (maybe Im just playing it all wrong). Again trying with just one.

My main problem with the deck was that I was finding that by the time I got to midrange with the deck itself I was getting outvalued by quite a bit by many of the decks I was facing. the 6 mana infernals arent that great, the abyssal enforcers would bring me quite low, or any board I had low, and I had to play at least some of these to make guldan have somewhat of an impact (though he does feel quite low impact to me still). I tried the variants with Lich King but the cards I got were total duds and he always got removed very quickly, and there would be this time where LK was dead, I didn't have many cards to play from guldan, my opponents board needed cleared but he had the potential to refill, and if I played guldan his impact was quite low with his 10 mana cost.

Basically Ive settled on this list atm:

controllock.png


Its a bit all over the place, but I tried to take out some of the more excessive board clears, i think it fares quite well midgame now. Eater of secrets is tech for mages because I faced so many today and its probably just a rage-pick to piss them off, can be swapped for druid tech card when necessary. Black Knight getting really good value from the 7 mana give minion taunt+stats card that a lot of my opponents run, from killing stegs, lich king etc. Alexstraza is an experiment of trying one less hellfire to give me some heals or some offensive game closing power before guldan drops. Ysera is a sub for lich king to actually give some good value at that point in the game, and its helped a lot against the priest decks/late game.

All in all im not sure how I feel about gul'dan yet.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
Gul'dan is good, but warlock is not performing well in general and if your goal is to climb then you probably don't want to settle on it. Every warlock deck is sub-50% winrate
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

skribble

Golden Knight of the Realm
488
136
Gul'dan is good, but warlock is not performing well in general and if your goal is to climb then you probably don't want to settle on it. Every warlock deck is sub-50% winrate

Yeah I feel like this is the case. Any idea of a non-pirate/druid deck which is quite fun to play but performs quite well in this meta? The jaina elemental deck looked interesting but I dont have many of those cards.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

slippery

<Bronze Donator>
7,895
7,708
For reference

### Demon N'zoth
# Class: Warlock
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (1) Mistress of Mixtures
# 2x (1) Mortal Coil
# 2x (1) Voidwalker
# 2x (2) Darkbomb
# 2x (2) Defile
# 1x (2) Doomsayer
# 1x (3) Demonwrath
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 1x (4) Hellfire
# 1x (4) Shadowflame
# 2x (4) Voidcaller
# 1x (5) Despicable Dreadlord
# 2x (5) Doomguard
# 2x (5) Sludge Belcher
# 2x (6) Siphon Soul
# 1x (6) Sylvanas Windrunner
# 1x (8) The Lich King
# 1x (9) Mal'Ganis
# 1x (10) Bloodreaver Gul'dan
# 1x (10) N'Zoth, the Corruptor
#
AAEBAf0GCooBkwG2B7kNwg/9EeCsAvfNAsLOApfTAgow9wTECMwIgQ6ODq0QysMC3sQC58sCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
<Bronze Donator>
8,452
3,577
I've been slumming it trying to make some different decks... and I think I have one that has potential.

Moorabi Shaman
AAECAaoIDPUE7QX4DKa8AsfBAs/HArTNArbNAvvNAqDOAsLOAsDQAgmKAYEE/gWgtgLdugL2vQKXwQKbwgKKzgIA

So unlike my other decks that had about a 10-20% winrate, this deck is at 50% right out of the gate (5-5 record last night)... so I think with some tweaks it might actually be decent.

I had to make a Moorabi deck once I opened a Golden Moorabi, but I didn't expect it to perform so well.

Strengths:
  • Lots of Control
  • Good vs Aggro
  • Good vs Jades
  • Good vs Big Priest
Weaknesses:
  • Slow Games - almost always goes to Fatigue
  • Very Little Burst
  • Susceptible to Burst
  • Low Healing
  • Quest Mage & Razakus Priest will be challenging
My Losses came from:
  • 1 Jade Druid because Geist was my 29th card
  • 1 Secret Mage that had 3 Fireballs and 2 Bonemares in first 10 cards, I didn't get enough removal in time.
  • 1 Razakus Priest with Velen - He got a Mind Blast from Lyra
  • 1 Razakus/N'Zoth/Elise Priest that out valued me because his RNG was stronger (3 Un'Goro Packs)
  • 1 Murloc Paladin (First game with deck and probably made many mistakes).
Tips/Tricks:
  • Right now this is considered a "fun deck". I'm going to see how well I can climb with it once season resets. Don't expect much right now.
  • Typically mulligan for Doomsayers/Maelstrom/Devolve
  • Against Control you can be greedy with Elise/Stonehills
  • Never keep Moorabi
  • Your goal is to be reactive and wait for late game where you can out-value your opponent.
  • With a clear board and 10 mana you can Moorabi 3 enemy targets with Moorabi --> Glacial --> Glacial --> Brrloc/Cryostasis
  • Cryostasis is the only freeze you can cast on an ally. You might want to use this on your Moorabi if you are playing a super-value game, this makes him a 7/7, he'll essentially have Taunt because your opponent never wants him to stick, so making him a 7/7 means better trades anyway, even though you aren't doing the attacking. Keep in mind Priest may have Death.
  • Cryostasis also just fine on an enemy that you plan to Hex/Devolve next turn. Difference between an 8/8 and an 11/11 isn't much.

Matchups:

AGGRO (WAR / PAL / SHM / DRU)

  • Don't be greedy, you have tons of removal and stall. This is standard control shaman but with even more control due to adding Freezes. You should only expect to trigger Moorabi 1-2x, and against Aggro you won't need Moorabi value, so just use your freeze cards for tempo/control.
  • Unless aggro draw the nuts, you really shouldn't have an issue.
  • Keep in mind 1x Lightning Storm and 1x Volcano, your AoE is lower, it's made up for with Freeze effects. You can save the big AoE for later if you stall with Freeze first.
  • You only have 12 points of healing, value your life total.
JADE DRUID
  • I'm currently 2-1 against Jade Druid. You want Geist early.
  • Look to Moorabi big boys: Aya / Behemoth / Primordial Drake / Lich King / Kun
  • Save a Hex for Aya.
  • Devolve early boards, the bigger golems could turn into things you won't want to deal with.
  • Play Doomsayer behind a taunt wall to get a board clear off.
  • Keeping their board minimal is the challenge, you need to use resources sparingly and balance life & resources. If you don't get Geist in first 20 cards you're going to have a really tough time.
BIG PRIEST
  • I've been so annoyed with Big Priest that I actually had this deck in mind when crafting this list. I did not play a single Big Priest last night, though.
  • Big Priest have 5-6 Minions, Hex/Devolve everything so their Servitudes are useless.
  • Should be GG EZ if you can get the Hex/Devolves early enough.
  • If not, look to Moorabi their stuff. Statue probably best target as it'll help remove their threats too, and also heals you.
RAZAKUS PRIEST
  • Very challenging matchup because you have very limited healing.
  • Look to keep Moorabi on the Mulligan.
  • You'll need to try to copy their Kazakus (perhaps a few times), or a Priest of the Feast
  • Try to get a few Kazakus so you can get +Armor once they're using the Machine Gun, you should be able to survive long enough to expend their resources.
  • I played 2 Razakus Priests and lost both so far, haven't copied a Kazakus yet. I was almost capable, was ready to add 3 Kazakus to my hand, and then the guy used my Volcano to wipe the entire board.
QUEST MAGE
  • This match is probably a guaranteed loss but like with any Quest Mage, you need to flood board asap and keep hitting face. Ignore his minions and keep going face.
  • Play Freeze minions for tempo, you wont need them with Moorabi
  • You could try to copy Coldlight to Mill the Mage but it's unlikely to work
  • Get Big Boys from Stonehills to go face harder
  • Save Hex/Devolve for Doomsayers

----

Ideas I've had, but not sure how to implement:
  • Adding Ysera for another big Value Minion
  • Adding an Elemental Package with Kalimos so I have flexibility (and healing!). I have 2 Elementals in the deck, would need more, which kinda ruins the flavor of the deck.
  • Adding a Spirit Echo so I can more consistently copy my Value minions. I'm sitting on so many dead cards in a game that I'm hesitant to add another. Could perhaps remove Cryostasis for it. Spirit Echo only likely to copy 1 big thing which is silly. Cryostasis has flexibility to copy from opponent, but is also a Freeze in a pinch.
  • Adding Hallazeal to attempt to counter Razakus Priest. Tough to get giant heals without Elemental Destruction. Volcano is the only combo piece and will kill your dude. Razakus doesn't run enough minions to guarantee giant heals.
  • Dirty Rat to counter Razakus/Quest Mage. So much removal in hand I'm typically waiting for my opponent to play something so that I can use my cards. Dirty Rat can allow it to happen on my terms. Often a Liability against aggro.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Tortfeasor

Molten Core Raider
1,008
181
I opened Moorabi on day 1 and a cryostasis like 2 days ago so i might give your deck a spin. Seems like elementals could work well on account of Kalimos offering some burst dmg, a huge heal, and another board clear
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user